I KNOW WHAT SNAPE WANTS!

[Richard]

No: HPFGUIDX 138673

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "M.Clifford" <Aisbelmon at h...> 
wrote:
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "vmonte" <vmonte at y...> wrote:
> > Richard wrote:
> > I think that if there were a fragment of Voldemort's soul in 
Harry,
> > Harry's and Voldemort's souls would have been at war with each 
other
> > from the moment that the transfer took place. By the same 
reasoning
> > that you use to ask what a fragment that had been in Harry for so
> > long would do to Voldemort, I ask, "What would being in Harry do 
to
> > such a fragment?" I think it would end up dead, as can be argued
> > from Voldemort's experience in trying to possess Harry in OotP. 
Yet,
> > I don't see support in canon for such an internal war.
> > 
> 
> Valky:
> 
> Believe it or not, Richard. I do see support in canon for such an
> internal war. 
> 
> First there's the reason Dumbledore chose to put Harry into the
> protection of his mothers blood, with the Dursleys, in spite of
> several thousand other kinds of protection Dumbeldore could have 
used
> instead to hide him from angry DE's and Vapour!Mort. There are 
quite a
> few readers that feel this was never satisfactorily explained in 
light
> of the awful treatment Harry endured from his Aunt and Uncle. The
> debate on wether Dumbledore should have chosen to *leave* Harry in
> this awful place for a decade could come to a grinding halt if we 
were
> to find out that Tom could have possessed baby Harry without the
> protection. It solves one of the mysterious contradictions in canon 
to
> think that there is a piece of Toms Soul in Harry.
> 
> Second there is Petunia, who knows about Voldemort, was told 
something
> in a letter by Dumbledore and, I noticed at the end of PS/SS looked
> downright terrified hen she saw Harry back from his first year of
> Hogwarts. These things mke hrdly any sense, but if Petunia has been
> told "the terrible truth" and the terrible truth is that Tom's soul 
is
> in Harry and could possess him at any moment, but for the protection
> of Lily's love that Dumbledore invoked after GH.
> 
> Third there is Moody's comment in OotP that Voldemort could be
> possessing Harry. The question of this seems to be closed by the
> revelation that Harry and Voldemort are only connected by the scar,
> and Voldemort was only putting idea in Harry's head through this
> connection. However there is still canon support in that statement 
for
> the notion that Moody knew of a reason why Voldemort might possess
> Harry.   
> 
> Finally, for now, there is the two snakes from Dumbledores silver
> instruments. Which are not easily explained by the connection 
between
> them in the scar. There must be a reason why this still has a 
question
> mark over it. And one answer is that there is a piece of Toms soul 
in
> Harry, that is indeed still blocked by Lily's protection from
> possessing him.
> 
> I am not saying absolutely that Harry is a horcrux, but the 
arguments
> for and against have all lacked this canon in them. I couldn't sit 
by
> the fire without chucking in a few logs to keep it burning. ;D
> 
> Valky
> Remembering, Cedric Diggory

Richard here:

>From what I've read, my impression is that though Dumbledore had been 
seeking memories of Voldemort for some time, he did not know that 
there were horcruxes involved until AFTER the CoS appearance of Tom's 
diary.  Even had he strongly suspected such prior to that episode, 
what canon is there to support that he believed such sufficiently to 
take the course of action he did BECAUSE he thought there might be a 
fragment of Voldemort's soul in Harry?

A linguistic point that may be important: a horcrux is aon object 
that by use of a spell contains a fragment of a soul.  The horcrux is 
not the fragment of soul itself ... or that's the way I read it.  
Further, the danger I see in using a living thing as a horcrux is the 
mortality of the living thing itself.  Such a horcrux is not 
protected against death by the presence of the alien soul fragment 
that we know of, and cna get itself into all manner of danger on its 
own.  In the case of a human horcrux, the danger is even greater 
during a war wherein such a vessel may fall mortal victim to EITHER 
sides forces, as happened to one of the Death Eaters during the 
Battle of the Tower: killed by "friendly" hex.

I doubt that the Dursleys would treat Harry abysmally as they have if 
they really feared that a very hostile, alien fragment of a soul 
might suddenly pop out and attack one and all.  Treat him with kid 
gloves, or even fire-place tongs, sure, and probably not with great 
personal tenderness, but certainly not with wanton neglect and 
discrimination!  What I see happening is the Dursley's believing that 
they are stuck with this "freak," his aunt thinking Voldemort dead, 
and behaving accordingly, given their low character and prejudices.

The choice of a blood-based protection for Harry seems very obvious, 
and not contradictory at all with my line of reasoning.  It was his 
mother's love and sacrifice that protected Harry from Voldemort, and 
evidently Dumbledore believed there were enduring residual effects 
from this protection to be derived from contact with Harry's 
remaining blood relative: Petunia.  Therefore, put him with Petunia, 
tell her that this protection may not be necessary, but it will exist 
so long as she accepts him into her home and as a member of the 
family.  No contradiction, hole, flaw or anything to explain away.

I also don't see that a fragment of Voldemort in Harry would lead to 
external Voldemort possessing Harry in a manner that would show Harry 
what external Voldemort wanted him to see.  I think it POSSIBLE, but 
not a strong argument, nor even evidence.  Rather, we have that 
Voldemort didn't know what diary!Tom had been up to, nor that it had 
been KILLED.

This is, of course, all speculation.  I just don't see it your way, 
and will let JKR tell us the way it "really" is when she gets around 
to it.  Just don't be disappointed if you are wrong ... I won't be if 
I'm proven wrong.

Richard