Apologizing to Snape? (was: Harry's story, not Snape's)

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 139059

Alla wrote earlier:
> It suggests to me that the possibility that Snape deliberately 
left 
> > out the Pensieve for Harry to see may still be vialble one 
<snip>...
Lady Indigo: 
> And what evidence do we have of that? Unless we've got another 
case of Snape 
> as a brilliant actor with a grand manipulation going on in the 
background, 
> of course.

Alla:

Oh, not much yet, definitely not much, but if one believes in  the 
ESE!Snape or OFH!Snape, this speculation goes in line with  general 
reading of Snape's character.

Snape tells Harry flat out - I did not ask for that job. Of course 
if you support Loyal to DD!Snape, then you would argue that Snape 
did  the job despite general dislike of it.

I am arguing that Snape hated teaching Harry so much that he would 
do anything to get out of it and why don't kill to birds with one 
stone? Get out of the job abd crash Harry's image of his father 
right in front of his eyes.

The weakest part of this speculation is of course the fact that 
Snape did not know whether they would be interrupted, but to me it 
is plausible that Snape would keep doing it - removing the memories 
till indeed  something would happen.


Have you noticed how mildly Dumbledore talks about Harry's excursion 
in the Pensieve before they start their lessons?

Granted we don't know whether  he talks about Harry's looking in his 
Pensieve or Snape's? But doesn't he smile?

And if DD IS JKR's moral compass in many questions ( whether I agree 
with it or not), seems like  he is not terrible upset with Harry, no?



Lady Indigo:
> Because while Snape's teaching methods were extremely probing and 
a touch 
> sadistic (keeping in touch with his usual modus operandi there), 
they WERE 
> devised to teach Harry while he was in a position of authority. He 
had far 
> more grounds to do so, though I don't dismiss the subtle abuse 
there at all. 


Alla:

I am glad we agree on the fact that Snape was abusing Harry during 
Occlumency lessons. :-) I submit though that we do not know that 
Snape's teaching methods were designed to Harry anythinbg whatsoever.

What we do know though is that Harry was feeling much worse after 
his Occlumency lesson and while it is possible that it was normal 
reaction, it is also possible that Snape was delibertely weakening 
his mental defenses and opening his mind further to Voldemort.




Lady Indigo:
> Harry can most certainly apologize for defending and sanctifying a 
man who 
> seemed to demonstrate just how cruel children can be at a time 
that he was 
> FAR too old to 'not know any better'.

Alla:

Harry was NOT defending James after he saw the pensieve scene, but I 
do not think he should apologise to Snape for what his father did, 
especially when  we may not know the whole story with Marauders and 
Snape? You know, there is that "Slytherin gang", whom Snape was 
running with and  who, IMO, was helping Snape a great deal to fight 
Marauders.

That Slytherin gang contained such nice members  as dear Bella, whom 
we know  that she is  a sadist now and may have been a sadist at 
much earlier age.



Lady Indigo:

 Forgive me if I can't be as understanding about The Hero of Our 
> Story, the one who it's all about, failing to realize or maybe 
failing to 
> care that Snape's lessons were important, Snape himself (as far as 
he knew) 
> was valuable to the Order, and some respect in the appropriate 
places might 
> make dealing with the man a little more pleasant.

Alla:

Sorry if I cannot be as understanding about  the man, who especially 
if  he was abused himself, took the road of abusing those who are 
weaker  than him.

Who made himself to be Neville's greatest fear, who threatened to 
poison Neville's pet.

Who, it appears, made his purpose in life to make Harry hate him.

After HBP I think it is very plausible that it will turn out that 
Snape's lessons were NOT important, that Snape was sabotaging them 
and that Snape was not  a valuable member for the Order, but someone 
who was biting his time to see which side is stronger to make his 
move or something like that.

Sigh... Another two years of wait. :-)


Lady Indigo:

 I'm not even expecting the 
> apology to come in Book 5, when Harry was unfit for it, but in 
Book 6 he 
> decided to blame Snape for Sirius, hate him for every little 
thing, and 
> mouth off to him (which certainly couldn't have helped in 
seperating him 
> from his father) - a lot of it before he even factored Snape into 
his 
> suspicions.

Alla:

IMO, JKR as I read her intentions , which could be wrong of course, 
disagrees with you. If she wanted Harry to apologise, IMO she would 
have wrote  about it.

And doesn't Harry say in the beginning that he decided to blame 
Snape for Sirius because it was easier to cope or something like 
that?

So, Harry does blame himself and where JKR wants him tot ake a high 
road, he most certainly does, IMO.


Lady Indigo:
> Harry's moving further and further towards the Dark Side of the 
Force 
> through his hate, and I'm surprised at how few people in both 
camps see 
> that.


Alla:

Harry was being tempted by Dark Art Spells, true, I think he passed 
the test nicely, but isn't it telling that Half Blood Prince was the 
one who was seducing him?

As to moving to Dark Side in general, I think Dumbledore sums it up 
really well:

"and yet, Harry despite your privileged insight into Voldemort's 
world ( which,incidentally, is a gift any Death Eater would kill to 
have), you have never ben seduced by the Dark Arts, never, even for 
a second, shown the slightest desire to become one of Voldemort's 
followers!"
"Of course, I haven't" said Harry indignantly. "He killed my mum and 
dad!" - HBP, p.511


Lady Indigo:
>> Snape was publicly humiliated and arguably sexually harassed when 
he was 
> minding his own business. 


Alla:

I never understood " the sexual harassment" analogy, frankly, but I 
understand it even less after HBP.

"Oh, that one had a great vogue  during my time at Hogwarts," said 
Lupin reminiscently. "There were a few months in my fifth year when 
you couldn't move for being hoisted into the air by your ankle." - 
HBP, p.336
So, it seems to me that the curse was very widely used.

I don't think that JKR would so casually throw there sexual 
harassment association.



Just me of course,

Alla.