Snape: Crime and Punishment

[festuco]

No: HPFGUIDX 143811

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at y...> wrote:

> I'm here to say, that it is very likely that it will NOT come to pass.
> Why? Because, in real life, this rarely happens. JKR is writing a
> somewhat light and classic "Hero's Journey", but it is a journey with
> dark subtext and a very real gritty sense of real-life reality. The
> truth is there are mean nasty teachers out there, and they spend there
> entire and very long teaching careers making the lives of their
> charges miserable. 

Gerry:
What we have seen in the books is that the bully always gets some kind
of punishment. Dudley, Draco, Umbridge. What happens to Snape is I
think more dependent on his actions in book 7, than in the former
books, but in the end I think there will be some kind of summing up.
DDM Snape will cancel out his bullying, EES Snape will make it almost
insignificant besides his other crimes.

> I think Snape's lack of direct punishment or ever being called to task
> for his mean nasty demeanor is just part of the harsh gritty reality
> of these books. The universal appeal of the books is that they are
> morally ambiguous. The good guy doesn't always win, the bad guys
> aren't clearly defined, and it isn't always fair; just like real life.

Gerry:
The thing I like about the books is that though in the WW things are
not always fair, in what happens to the characters there is a fair
amount of poetic justice. Take the Hagrid - Dudley scene. Yes, Hagrids
intentions had nothing to do with Dudley, but for the first time in
his life Dudley got a richley deserved punishment. 
> 
> The next reason I don't believe Snape will be called to task for his
> actions is because we are looking at the events from the perspective
> of modern American education; 

Gerry: 
I's sure you and the other Americans do, but why should the rest of
the world?

> Further, in the modern and not so modern world, Catholic Schools the
> world over are noted for their harsh physical punishments of students,
> and their absolute no-nonsense ridged rules and blunt authoritarian
> enforcement, and yes, even their unfairness. 

Gerry:
Are they? I've spent my complete educational life in Catholic schools,
we have quite a lot of them here and this statement is completely
ridiculous. I don't know much about Belgian or Italian education, but
as far as I know their schools do not have this kind of reputation at
all. I'm sure there are lots of places in South America and Africa
where people would laugh about this too. This may very well true in
your country, but that does not say anything about the rest of the world. 
 
> I think accusations of /abuse/ on his part are not so much a matter of
> reality, as they are a matter of overblown, overhyped, ultra-liberal
> thinking. (Sorry, I know that stings a bit, and for the record, I do
> consider myself a liberal; just not an overhyped ultra-liberal.)

Gerry: 
The toad incident would certainly classify as abuse in any school over
here. 
> 
> In short, in real life, the bad guys don't always get punished. 

Gerry: 
But up til now in the Potterverse quite a lot of them have in rather
unexpected ways. I think that is one of the universal appeals of the
story myself. That there is justice in the universe, when in the world
of people there often is none.
> 
> Let's see if I can add one more short note about Snape. I have already
> said the even under the most ideal circumstances, the wizard world
> will never forgive or forget that Snape killed Dumbledore. They may
> come to understand, they may even understand to the point where the
> courts will grant leniency to Snape, but they will never forgive his
> actions.

Gerry
I think you are right. That is why I believe if he is DDM his action
could have been very couragious, depending on why he took the UV.

 can we really expect Harry to accomplish in less than a
> year what Dumbledore could not accomplish in many years? I don't think
> so. Even starting with Dumbledore's information; Harry has a
> monumental task ahead of him. One that, as I have also said before, he
> is woefully unprepared for. Conclusion: there has to be some type of
> shortcut, and I see that shortcut as Snape.

Gerry:
Well, DD had to start from scratch. And he gave a lot of all that
knowledge he learned over the years to Harry, so their starting
positions are very different. I do agree Harry needs help, because LV
must realize some time Harry is after the Horcruxes. And yes, Snape as
helper would make sense (besides I'd love it). 

> Yet, despite sealing his own doom, I think the wizard world is capable
> of understanding the nature and motivation of Snape's action after the
> fact. And while that understanding may brind a degree of leniency,
> Snape will still suffer imprisonment for his actions. That is, if he
> isn't killed first.

Depends on the why and how. I can easily see it happen that mentally
people will recognize the heroic act while emotionally they will have
nothing to do with this kind of here. If he does not die, this sets
him up for a very lonely life. I hope JKR will pull something out of
her hat but I'm pessimistic. 

Gerry