The Legend of the Lost Day

[spotsgal]

No: HPFGUIDX 143816

Yes...I LOVE the missing 24-hour theories....

> KJ writes:
> There was obviously some kind of magical exchange of a life for a 
> life, and possibly blood for blood, incanted non-verbally by Lily, 
> which would have set up the basis for Dumbledore's later 
> protections. 

Christina:

Unfortunately, JKR has dismissed any idea that Lily may have 
performed a charm or other magic to ensure Harry's survival.

(QUOTE)
MA: Did [Lily] know anything about the possible effect of standing 
in front of Harry?

JKR: No - because as I've tried to make clear in the series, it 
never happened before. No one ever survived before. And no one, 
therefore, knew that could happen.
(END QUOTE)

> KJ:
> As JKR refused to answer any questions about time turners, I 
> suspect that by the time all of our actors were in place, it woud 
> have been necessary to send Hagrid back via time turner to 
> retrieve Harry before he became a ward of the Muggle government. 

Christina:

I also suspect that time-turners will come back into play, but I 
never quite figured out how, considering the fact that they have all 
supposedly been "destroyed."  This would be a good way to get them 
back in the storyline without having anyone actually use one in real-
time; however, I have quite a few problems with this idea.  JKR has 
shown us that in her world of time-travel, time-travelling parties 
exist in the same realm as their original copies (ie, Harry2 casts a 
patronus to save Harry1, even before Harry1 knows that he will be 
time-travelling at some point).  Therefore, there would never be a 
set of events where Harry would be taken by the Muggles; if 
Dumbledore sent Hagrid back in time, the only timeline in existance 
would be the one in which Hagrid gets to Harry in time.  In PoA, it 
is Dumbledore that gives Harry and Hermione the idea of using the 
time-turner, but it is not clear how he knew that a time-turner had 
been used, if that makes sense.  Unfortunately, JKR never specifies 
how Dumbledore knew that a time-travelling trip would be necessary 
to save Buckbeak, because he never lived through a time where 
Buckbeak was slaughtered.  I suspect that during the Buckbeak scene, 
Dumbledore perhaps saw or otherwise detected Harry2 and Hermione2 
and knew that they took Buckbeak.  Maybe Dumbledore has a sort of 
Marauder's Map-type device that can locate students, and Dumbledore 
saw two copies of H&H.  We just don't know, but at least in that 
situation, Dumbledore is in a place to be able to figure out that 
time-travel is necessary before he recommends it.

I just don't see how it could happen in the GH scenario.  The only 
possible way I can think of that it could work would be if 
Dumbledore gave Hagrid instructions to go back in time, *wake him 
up*, and then get Harry.  In that scenario, Hagrid would go back in 
time, Hagrid2 would wake Dumbledore up and tell him that he's time-
travelling and that something has happened to the Potters.  In that 
case, Dumbledore would have the time to make his arrangements and 
then he would definitely know that he would have to tell Hagrid1 in 
the morning (or whenever) to time-travel in the first place.  I 
don't know, but this just sounds SO contrived to me that I don't 
like it.

Of course, it's impolite to refute your idea without supplying one 
of my own :)

I think that Dumbledore could feel the Fidelius Charm breaking.  We 
know that people that have been told the secret cannot share the 
news with others.  Snape even says specifically, "You know I cannot 
speak the name of the place."  Interesting choice of words, which 
suggests that Snape is physically unable to share the secret.  
Obviously, if somebody went to Dumbledore at some point after the 
Fidelius was broken and asked Dumbledore where the Potters were, he 
would realize that he could give that information and that the spell 
had been borken.  But I wonder if a wizard as powerful as Dumbledore 
could *feel* the spell give way, bringing him the knowledge that he 
could say the name of the place aloud.  If so, that would tip 
him off immediately to the fact that the Fidelius was broken.  We 
know that Dumbledore can sort of sense magic (ie, at the cave).  I 
think he could also feel the breaking of the Fidelius 
(a "disturbance in the force," perhaps...sorry).

Also possible: Lily (or James I suppose, but I think Lily would have 
had more time), sent a message via patronus to Dumbledore.  
Considering that we know that Dumbledore uses this fast, easy method 
of communication, I see this as a distinct possibility (although, 
does your patronus die out when you do?).

> KJ:
> In the original events, Sirius may have arrived too late 
> to meet Hagrid before the Muggles showed up, or he may have 
> arrived at the Potter's after Hagrid had taken Harry.

Christina:

What Sirius may or may not have done without a time-travel event is 
irrelevant because we know that when time-travel occurs, no copy of 
the original events survives.  There literally are no "original 
events," because nothing really ever changes- the only events that 
happen are the ones that happen during the time-travelling.  So 
Sirius arriving at the Potters to meet Hagrid would have happened 
whether Hagrid was time-travelling or not.


> KJ:
> To me it is impossible for Dumbledore to have told Hagrid near the 
> time of the attack on the Potter's that he would be going to the 
> Potter's to get Harry. Hagrid would have had to have told Minerva 
> near midnight or shortly after that he was going to pick up Harry.

Christina:

I don't think Hagrid would have delayed in getting Harry.  There's 
no evidence that shows that Hagrid stayed with Harry for the entire 
24 hours.  It's entirely possible that Hagrid took Harry, brought 
him somewhere, went to find McGonagall to send her to Privet Drive 
(and possibly do some other errands), and then get Harry back, watch 
him for a bit, and then bring him to Privet Drive.


> KJ:
> Dumbledore had a much better idea of the time that Hagrid 
> would be arriving, just as he knew when to lock the hospital wing 
> door when Harry and Hermione returned.

Christina:

He didn't know when to lock the hospital wing door.  He locked the 
door on his way out so that he could *tell* Fudge that he locked the 
door.  The only reason that the trio aren't suspected in the release 
of Sirius is because Dumbledore points out that they were locked in 
the hospital wing the whole time and *couldn't possibly* have gone 
out.  Dumbledore doesn't guess at what time Harry2 and Hermione2 
will have finished their business, he tells outright them that they 
only have until that point in time to make it back.


> KJ:
> Also, because of the irony of the situation. Sirius felt 
> incredible guilt for choosing Peter as the SK and talking James 
> and Lily into accepting Peter.

Christina:

It's so sad- Sirius thinks he's being so clever and sneaky by 
switching the Secret Keeper, and in the end, it all blows up in his 
face.  Poor kid.


Christina