Snape, Hagrid and Animals

[a_svirn]

No: HPFGUIDX 143846

Magpie:

I said *beer*--as in, saying "it will be the last thing you'll do" 
is more
the kind of vague threat I'd associate with casually talking to a 
friend to
not touch your beer when you went to the restroom than a teacher 
supervising
kids with wild animals where there was actual danger involved. This
situation called for a far more detailed and serious lesson before 
the kids
got anywhere near the hippogriffs--much less tossed onto their backs.
Actually, they shouldn't be seeing hippogriffs at all, because 
they're far
too advanced.

a_svirn:

My apologies. That was a stupid mistake on my part. However, your 
example illustrates my point even better. The meaning of our 
utterances is always contextual. When my friend says "I'll murder 
you" I know he's joking. If however, some desperate individual 
ambushed me in the dark and said the same words, while holding a 
knife to my throat I would be strongly inclined to believe him. 
There is no reason in the world why Hagrid's students should 
disbelieve him. He's an adult, a teacher, and they, moreover, have 
a "true and sensible avouch" of their own eyes: after all, 
hippogriffs do look rather ferocious and have long talons. The only 
reason Draco fails to get Hagrid's message is because he does NOT 
regard him as a teacher and a superior. For him Hagrid is an "oaf". 
A servant, an underling undeservingly elevated to a high social 
position, probably for no better reason than to spite the Malfoys. 
After all, it is a well-known scientific fact that the Universe is 
revolved around the Malfoy's Wiltshire mansion. Now, how can *that* 
be a Hagrid's fault? I am not saying that he's a good teacher, I 
know he's lousy. But the hippogriff's lesson calamity is a Draco's 
responsibility, and Draco's alone. 

Leslie:

Faulty analogy. First of all, calling someone "simple" or "clumsy"
is also derogatory, when speaking of a teacher anyway. Would it
have been any different if Draco had said "I'm going to see to it
that my dad gets rid of that simple, clumsy Professor"?

Secondly, the word "nigger," at least when used by whites to refer
to blacks, has absolutely no other use than pejorative. And I
rather take umbrage at your assertion that the statement "our new
football coach is a nigger" could be, as you suggest, "true" (though
an insult).

The word most like "nigger" in the wizarding world is not oaf,
but "mudblood." And Lily and Hermione are NOT "mudbloods," any more
than African-Americans are "niggers", if you get my drift.

In other words, if someone asked me if our new coach was a "nigger,"
I would think the only response to that question would be a
resounding, disgusted "no!" even if the new coach was Samuel L.
Jackson.

a_svirn:

It would certainly be a faulty analogy if I had compared *nigger* 
and *oaf*. I did no such thing, however. What I said, is that 
relationship between *afro-American* and nigger is the same as 
between *simple and clumsy person* and *oaf*. And so they are. In 
both cases we have two signifiers for the same signified (*a black 
person* and *simple, unsophisticated person* respectively, one of 
them is neutral while the other has an insulating connotation and 
therefore should not be used or tolerated. 

And I am personally am at loss to understand why would you prefer to 
treat an insult as if it were a false statement. It would only mean 
that there *are* actually niggers out there, but your new coach, 
fortunately, is not one of them – something, I am sure, you would 
not wish to imply. Taking up your analogy with "mudbloods" – no one 
in the WW reacts to the word as if it were a charge to be 
repudiated. On the contrary everyone recognizes it for what it is – 
an insult -- and reacts accordingly. The same goes to "oaf". When 
Draco calls Hermione a "mudblood" he got shouted at and cursed 
(albeit unsuccessfully). When he calls Hagrid an "oaf" he got 
slapped. A normal reaction to an insult.