[HPforGrownups] Re: In Defense of Hagrid-and some Snape

[Magpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 143961

kchuplis:
I'm a tad baffled by the entire reaction to the Hippogryff Incident. ...

Magpie:

Seriously, I'm equally baffled by how saying, "It's a running joke that 
Hagrid does not have a realistic perspective on animal danger management and 
this is always causing him problems" is somehow controversial.  To me it's 
about on the same level as saying that Snape lets his hatred for James 
influence his dealings with Harry.

kchuplis:
Maybe it's because I had a forth
> grade teacher who yanked people out of their chair by the ear if they
> looked like they were thinking about possibly breaking a rule, but
> Hagrid's class, for the type of school they are in, and the other
> dangers they are facing, didn't seem overtly careless or cruel to me.

Magpie:
I don't quite understand.  You had a fourth grade teacher who was in control 
of the class, and was prepared for children breaking rules.  Not seeing what 
that has to do with Hagrid.

Gerry:
Gerry, who thinks it is ridiculous to blame a teacher for an accident

Magpie:

Oh, we're not even close to blaming the teacher for the accident.  We're too 
busy fighting to suggest the teacher had anything to do with anything that 
happened in the class at all, except for the brilliant success of kids like 
Neville and Harry.

My problem is I persist in seeing this pattern of Hagrid's being kind of a 
joke, something that causes plot complications and problems for Harry.  JKR 
relies on Malfoy's nastiness for plot complications too, but this scene is a 
team effort.

Joe Goodwin:

JKR seems to place a very high value on personal responsibility.

Magpie:

Except for Hagrid, apparently. Slytherins may be guilty of plenty of things, 
but that doesn't keep them from being convenient scapegoats as well. (And 
Hagrid is quite handy with the guilt trip in canon.)

Malfoy is in detention because he was outside.  Harry was outside because 
Hagrid was illegally keeping a dragon and dragging the kids into lying for 
him. Yet Hagrid is the guy giving the detention.  Poor Hagrid.

 Joe Goodwin:
If anyone is to blame it is Mr. and Mrs. Malfoy for not teaching Draco not 
to be an insufferable jerk.

Magpie:

And that's the key, isn't it?  Malfoy's the jerk, so he gets the blame. 
(Malfoy's friends think Hagrid's the jerk--but they don't count because 
they're jerks too.)  Only that's not actually the way things always work 
out.  Being accurate about what happened often requires looking beyond 
finding the jerk and treating that person the same way you'd treat someone 
else.  Sometimes even when one person is sure of who the bad guy is, another 
person might take Lily's pov that "you're just as bad as he is." 
Particularly when one person is 13 and the other one is, what, 57?  I 
suspect the biggest difference-perhaps the only one that really makes a 
difference at all to what happens--between Ron's injury and Malfoy's is 
Ron's attitude towards Hagrid.

Betsy:

Hmmm, I actually think Snape really *does* want Neville to succeed.  Not 
necessarily because he wants *Neville* to succeed, but because he doesn't 
want to fail as a teacher.  I think Snape is the type to see his students' 
performance as a reflection of his own performance as a teacher.

Magpie:

Yes, I do think Snape sets up his class with the goal of students getting 
good grades on their OWLS and NEWTS and actually knowing Potions well.  It's 
funny, actually, to go through and look at what Snape likes as a teacher, 
because he's not lazy, that's one thing to say about him.  I think he really 
is annoyed by Hermione as a student--and Neville as well.  Double that when 
Hermione does Neville's work for him.

-m