In Defense of Hagrid-and some Snape

[kchuplis]

No: HPFGUIDX 143994

> kchuplis:
> I'm a tad baffled by the entire reaction to the Hippogryff Incident. ...
> 
> Magpie:
> 
> Seriously, I'm equally baffled by how saying, "It's a running joke that 
> Hagrid does not have a realistic perspective on animal danger management and 
> this is always causing him problems" is somehow controversial.  To me it's 
> about on the same level as saying that Snape lets his hatred for James 
> influence his dealings with Harry.

kchuplis:
I did not say that Hagrid does not have some problems with seeing how animals 
affect non-giants (since he has natural protection that humans do not, I can certainly 
understand that he doesn't necessarily grasp the seriousness to others. I see too 
many people who cannot understand other people's perspective on a daily basis to 
believe Hagrid can be just as blind.) What I don't see is how this class, this school can 
be compared to modern day "muggle" institutions, which is what I am seeing in these 
debates. 

When Malfoy complains about the detention going into the dangerous forest and says 
"if my dad knew" Hagrid tells him his dad would say that's how it is at *Hogwarts*. 
This does shut Malfoy up, presumably because it is the truth. The detention is a 
school sanctioned discipline that is considered exceedingly dangerous. This to me is 
yet another angle on Hogwart's students being more in jeapardy than the average 
student. 

I also do not see how Malfoy gets off in the ongoing arguments here for being 
blatantly to blame for his own injury. The teacher (Hagrid) gave specific important 
instructions that were purposely ignored by the student (Malfoy) with predictable and 
someone obviously overblown (by the student himself) results. Again, students 
routinely practice dangerous lessons at Hogwarts, not the least of which include 
broom flying and the dangerous game of Quidditch as well as potions and charms 
that turn out badly or backfire. I do not see how one can condemn Hagrid and not 
condemn virtually every aspect of Hogwarts for putting students at the possible risk 
of injury. Hagrid's class in not in a vacuum.

> 
> Magpie:
> I don't quite understand.  You had a fourth grade teacher who was in control 
> of the class, and was prepared for children breaking rules.  Not seeing what 
> that has to do with Hagrid.
> 

kchuplis
I've also had teachers that were plenty bendable about rules. The point is that being 
extraordinarily severe isn't a clear pass to "good teacher practices". Not to mention 
that ear pulling can have serious consequences of itself. To be quite honest, living in 
fear of the 4th grade teacher did nothing toward furthering my learning but I learned 
plenty from teachers of whom I was not afraid. 

Once again, in my mind, the "witch hunt" (ha ha) over Hagrid's action or inaction 
seems rooted in the litigious mind set of today's society where no one, and I mean no 
one has any control and no one is prepared to take responsibility because they are 
afraid of being sued. I just don't believe that mentality can apply to Hogwarts, where 
students are routinely in the way of danger of injury even withOUT LV on the loose or 
Hagrid's Care of Magical Creatures class.


> Gerry:
> Gerry, who thinks it is ridiculous to blame a teacher for an accident
> 
> Magpie:
> 
> Oh, we're not even close to blaming the teacher for the accident.  We're too 
> busy fighting to suggest the teacher had anything to do with anything that 
> happened in the class at all, except for the brilliant success of kids like 
> Neville and Harry.
> 
kchuplis:
I'm a little confused with this statement seeing as how Harry and Neville rarely come 
off as brilliant *in class*. They both are outstanding at nerve in real life situations, 
however. 

> Joe Goodwin:
> 
> JKR seems to place a very high value on personal responsibility.
> 
> Magpie:
> 
> Except for Hagrid, apparently. Slytherins may be guilty of plenty of things, 
> but that doesn't keep them from being convenient scapegoats as well. (And 
> Hagrid is quite handy with the guilt trip in canon.)
> 
> Malfoy is in detention because he was outside.  Harry was outside because 
> Hagrid was illegally keeping a dragon and dragging the kids into lying for 
> him. Yet Hagrid is the guy giving the detention.  Poor Hagrid.

kchuplis:
Poor Malfoy. I can think of no other instances where he was given detention and 
plenty where Harry was (I guess there was the ferret incident but as Mad-eye wasn't 
really a teacher, I don't know if that can count. Had it been any other teacher would 
he have been punished for trying to curse a student when his back was turned? I don't 
recall seeing any proff that he would have been punished unlike Harry who is often 
punished ever for things that are not really justly punishable! I'll keep an eye out on 
this reread. Feel free to point out all the other times that Malfoy was punished for his 
behaviour.)  This is scapegoating?


>  Joe Goodwin:
> If anyone is to blame it is Mr. and Mrs. Malfoy for not teaching Draco not 
> to be an insufferable jerk.
> 
> Magpie:
> 
> And that's the key, isn't it?  Malfoy's the jerk, so he gets the blame. 

kchuplis:
Malfoy's a jerk and does NOT get the blame. I think that is more to the point. In the 
Hippogriff incident he is directly to blame for his injury. He is often a jerk other times 
and is let off because it is under Snape's watch. 

> (Malfoy's friends think Hagrid's the jerk--but they don't count because 
> they're jerks too.)  Only that's not actually the way things always work 
> out.  Being accurate about what happened often requires looking beyond 
> finding the jerk and treating that person the same way you'd treat someone 
> else.  Sometimes even when one person is sure of who the bad guy is, another 
> person might take Lily's pov that "you're just as bad as he is." 
> Particularly when one person is 13 and the other one is, what, 57?  I 
> suspect the biggest difference-perhaps the only one that really makes a 
> difference at all to what happens--between Ron's injury and Malfoy's is 
> Ron's attitude towards Hagrid.

kchuplis
Well, that is certainly why Ron did not go to Pomfrey. This is, however, some how laid 
at Hagrid's doorstep. Why is Hagrid constantly responsible for the students 
behaviour? Malfoy (whom Hagrid DID whip off to the infirmary immediately) made an 
injury out to be worse than it is and Ron downplayed one (to his own disadvantage.) 
It's Hagrid's fault that Ron values his friendship? I highly doubt Hagrid said "now don't 
go running to Pomfrey" after being bitten by the dragon, and no, he didn't frog march 
Ron up there either, but that is off page so I guess we can assume Hagrid laid a guilt 
trip on Ron. I didn't read it that way in Ron's response about the bite. And Hagrid's 
actions do not appear to be hidden from Ron as Ron appeared to be fully sensible of 
Hagrid's blindness on the danger of the dragon. His words make it appear that way at 
least. And yet the only responsible party is Hagrid. These kids aren't 5 they are 11 or 
12 year olds with more than your average exposure to this type of thing (aside from 
Harry who did not grow up around it, but still seems to understand the gravity of 
most situations). I also don't believe parents live in total oblivioun to the dangers of 
Hogwarts, or have seen no real evidence of this. Perhaps the ones who are muggles 
only. but still, these arguments seem to indicate Hagrid is the only person at fault in 
any of these situations. That's baffling to me.

kchuplis