Snape, Hagrid and Animals

[Ceridwen]

No: HPFGUIDX 144034

Nora:
> But I ask *you* this question: was 
> Dumbledore unaware of sex offender Sirius at Hogwarts, and would he 
> have let him off lightly solely to protect Remus Lupin? 

Ceridwen:
EEK!  I mean, EEEEEEEK!  Yes, I know that's what La Gatta was 
apparently saying.  But, still.  Eek?

La Gatta: 
> > Upset, yes, but not to the point that it obsesses you for life. 
As 
> > it clearly does with Snape. I think what we are seeing in the 
> > Pensieve is just the tip of the iceberg, one of many similar 
> > assaults on young Severus' physical and emotional space. 

Ceridwen:
Okay.  That's possible.  Pantsing someone is a form of humiliation 
that has been done on schoolyards for... well, since before my time.  
And, it is exactly what you say: harassment, an invasion of space, 
humiliation.  And, once a gang of bullies gets hold of a particular 
punching bag, they don't let him go all that easily.  When that 
punching bag is possibly a match for any one of them on their own, as 
Snape may well be, it's just more of a challenge.  I never did buy my 
mother's bit about standing up to people who bullied me making them 
leave me alone.  It just doesn't work that way.

Sherry:
> Your comments about the supposed real reason for James turning poor
> Sevvy upside down implies that James did it for Sirius, which means 
> you think James knew of his terrible behavior.

La Gatta:
> > Well, yes... I think all four of the Marauders are in on the 
dirty 
> > little secret, and responding to it in their individual ways: *
(snip)*

Nora:
> That makes a whole lot of people at Hogwarts nasty voyeurs too, 
then; 
> remember that a number of people are watching and laughing.

Ceridwen:
Ah.  Okay.  Let's hold on a minute.  Pantsing someone is a longtime 
tradition among people with the upper hand and a particular way of 
seeing themselves with power, on the schoolyard.  How many jokes are 
there about running someone's underwear up the flagpole?  Such a 
situation inforces the view of the pantsee as some sort of 98 lb. 
geeky weakling being bested by the jocks.  It's humiliation, in the 
same way that rape is not about sex, but power and humiliation, and 
other very *un*romantic impulses.  The jocks are portrayed as simple 
brutes in the jokes, while the geek gets derided for not being a 
jock.  (*sigh* Some people want it both ways)

The laughing students are behaving like the people who laugh at the 
joke.  It's funny to see the jocks give the geek, who shows them up 
in class, 'the business'.  And if Snape's been as agressive about 
hexing the Marauders, and possibly other students, they may be 
laughing about the comeuppance.  Each portrayal plays into the 
stereotype:  The jocks can't compete in class, but they're more than 
physically able; the geek is more able in class, but out of his 
league in the muscle department.  No matter how it actually works out 
in real life.
*(snip)*

La Gatta:
> > I'd love to be wrong about Sirius, but I'm afraid I don't have a 
> > very high opinion of him and his Marauders, and I don't think the 
> > Prank was even remotely innocent.

> -Nora thinks that this is the first time this particular allegation 
> has been made about Sirius Black, but there must be a first time   
> for everything

Ceridwen:
Oh, dear.  I did snip all the innuendos.  But, I can't see anything 
that suggests that Sirius was a 'sex offender'.  Even if he had a 
penchant for boys, it would have been age-appropriate.  He and Snape 
are about the same age.  They're in the same year at school.  Even if 
one had been held back a year, that's still within normal parameters 
for a relationship - see Harry (6th year) and Ginny (5th year).  Sex 
offender?  Sexual predator?  Child molester?  How do you get from 
liking someone his own age, and pedophelia?

*IF* James is upending Snape for Sirius's lascivious pleasure, and 
*IF* pantsing Snape would give Sirius a rush and James knows that, it 
still doesn't equate to Sirius having an unnatural liking for someone 
twenty years his junior, whose only claim to sex is obvious organs, 
as in baby Harry.  Sirius and Snape are the same age.  Harry, the 
Weasley children, and Hermione, are young enough to be Sirius's own 
children.  Seeing this memory doesn't imply unnatural feelings on the 
part of any of the Marauders, esp. pedophelia.

The big problem with the scenario, whether or not Sirius is getting a 
rush and the other Marauders are supporting and enabling this, is 
that Snape is not willing.  And, it's public.  It's a humiliating 
incident that shows the Marauders in a bad light (the muscle-bound 
jocks), as well as Snape (the geeky weakling).  Since pantsing has 
been a staple of a joke in schoolyard humor for ages, I can't see JKR 
meaning anything beyond the obvious stereotypes of Jock and Geek in 
this showing.

And, enjoying the traits of people the same age, doesn't 
automatically lead to sexual offenses.  Fifteen might be a bit old 
for such juvenile games.  But at the same time, it's also an age more 
and more, where kids are still trying to cling to the favorite 
remnants of childhood, like bathroom humor, jokes about bodily 
funcitons, and pantsing people just because, not for the sexual 
rush.  I guess what I'm struggling to say is that, even if Sirius is 
inappropriate toward people his own age, that doesn't mean he'll be 
inappropriate with children.  Or, that the memory shows him being 
inappropriate *with a child*, since he was a child then himself.  
They were peers, contemporaries.  No way can I see this memory of 
Snape's as Sirius being... well, anything but an immature brat who 
just likes to see someone he doesn't like, being humiliated.

And, if anyone was getting excited, it was Peter.  But, I rush to 
add, it was the excitement of the capture, IMO, not the creepier 
variety.

Ceridwen, who is still resembling a google-eyed emoticon.