Snape, Hagrid and Animals

[nrenka]

No: HPFGUIDX 144028

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "lagattalucianese" 
<katmac at k...> wrote:

> Upset, yes, but not to the point that it obsesses you for life. As 
> it clearly does with Snape. I think what we are seeing in the 
> Pensieve is just the tip of the iceberg, one of many similar 
> assaults on young Severus' physical and emotional space. As I see 
> it, this harrassment has gone on for years, to the point that it is 
> making Snape physically sick (see the description of him in the 
> O.W.L.S. test). 

Some listies would argue that Snape is actually not obsessed about 
this, although I wouldn't necessarily. :)  However, when you factor 
in the whole "responsible in some way for the deaths of two people" 
factor and add that onto whatever other teenage baggage never got 
worked through...that seems enough to flash-fry it into the memory.  
YMMV.

What is left out of this argument is any kind of reciprocality.  No, 
we haven't *seen* any scene like that, but we haven't had a chance to 
go look into Lupin's memories, or anyone else from that time period.  
Finding out that Snape was the inventor of the magic being used here, 
though...I think that's designed to make us think hard about 
sympathies, and I wouldn't be surprised if we get the picture shifted 
in another direction yet again.

> Well, yes... I think all four of the Marauders are in on the dirty 
> little secret, and responding to it in their individual ways: 
> James, as Sirius' best buddy, right-hand man, and facilitator; 
> Remus as the "protected" outcast, supporting the others and hating 
> himself for it; and Peter tagging along and drooling down his bib 
> at Severus' pain and humiliation. (Go back and read the whole 
> episode, and watch what each of the Marauders is doing. It's pretty 
> enlightening.)

That makes a whole lot of people at Hogwarts nasty voyeurs too, then; 
remember that a number of people are watching and laughing.

I'll simply reiterate the danger of taking one glimpse as utterly 
paradigmatic.  Think of all the moments in the series where going on 
only one thing would produce strangely off-kilter readings.

<snip>

> Not a nice family, and some of that thinking had to have rubbed off 
> on Sirius; little as he likes most of his relatives, he seems to 
> dislike them for personal reasons, not because of their social 
> elitism. 

OotP, American HB, p. 111:

"Because I hated the whole lot of them: my parents, with their pure-
blood mania, convinced that to be a Black made you practically 
royal...my idiot brother, soft enough to believe them..."

I suppose if you want to argue that no, for Sirius it's actually 
personal and he's just throwing that out there as a justification, 
that you can.  But then it's so easy to get rid of the explicit canon 
that you don't like.

> (Interestingly, I don't think we are told what Lily thinks of this 
> arrangement.)

>From the glimpses that we've gotten of Lily, do you really think 
she'd approve of something like that?  Do you think she'd do 
something that she considered a bad idea, that would endanger her 
child--and do you think James values her so little that he'd do that 
to her?  This reminds me of the Secret Keeper situation, where it 
also makes no sense that Lily wouldn't have been deeply involved.

> As for JKR, we have only her word for what she feels about Sirius, 
> and JKR, IMHO, is a past master of misdirection.

I see your "JKR is super sneaky" argument and raise you a ton of 
poleaxed shippers (some still holding on to sweet, sweet hope out 
there).  She turned out not to be playing any misdirection games 
whatsoever there.  Can you give me a good example, a really nice 
solid example, of where JKR has engaged in outright misdirection 
about how she regards a character?  She's sneaky about future plot 
points, but she's always been remarkably candid about what she thinks 
of the character of her characters.

> I'd love to be wrong about Sirius, but I'm afraid I don't have a 
> very high opinion of him and his Marauders, and I don't think the 
> Prank was even remotely innocent.

If you have the edition of the books that actually gives the details 
on the so-called Prank in a way that it all makes sense and works out 
without having to fill in two-thirds of the information ourselves, 
please do share.  We've been promised an explanation of that via 
interview, and as it didn't happen this book, it must happen the 
next.  Until then, all arguments on the topic are more provisional 
than you can shake a stick at.  But I ask *you* this question: was 
Dumbledore unaware of sex offender Sirius at Hogwarts, and would he 
have let him off lightly solely to protect Remus Lupin?  Or was it 
that they were so smoove at hiding it that Dumbledore had no idea?

-Nora thinks that this is the first time this particular allegation 
has been made about Sirius Black, but there must be a first time for 
everything