Two scenes for most everyone (was Re: Retribution for Snape the Teacher)

[lupinlore]

No: HPFGUIDX 144056

 
> Julie:
> These two scenes aren't karmic retribution, they are scenes of abject 
> humiliation. In the first scene Snape is not genuinely apologizing or 
> remorseful for his actions, and in neither scene is there any 
> indication that Snape has grown beyond his prejudices and grudges and 
> come to understand himself or those around him better (which is what 
> Dumbledore wants to see, and why he won't *force* Snape to 
> change/apologize/make amends).
> 

> 

Lupinlore:
Ah, but karmic retribution is NOT the same as personal growth.  Let us 
look at the situation with Lockheart.  He ends up with his mind wiped, 
as he had done to so many others, and confined to a mental institution -
- as one suspects many of his victims have been.  Now, does that mean 
he has undergone personal growth?  Absolutely not.  It merely indicates 
that the punishment has fit the crime in a particularly fitting and 
satisfying way.  That is the meaning of karmic retribution.  Now, 
Snape's sins involve public and crushing humiliation of his students.  
Therefore, appropriate retribution for Snape would be public 
humiliation.  What goes around comes around, etc.

Now, poetic justice CAN lead to personal growth.  Perhaps we will see 
that with regard to the Dursleys.  The karmic justice dished out by 
Dumbledore may, in the seventh book, lead to some movement, although 
JKR has seemed to discount that in terms of Vernon and Petunia.  I have 
no objection at all to personal growth from Snape, but the needs of 
poetic justice MUST be met, if JKR can be said to have dealt with the 
incredibly important moral issue of child abuse and Snape's 
reprehensible behavior, not to mention Dumbledore's reprehensible 
policies in allowing it.

But the problem is I just don't see it.  I really can't see any 
scenario in which growth on Snape's part would be believable.  He has 
had sixteen years to nurse his grudges.  Nothing that has happened 
since Harry came to Hogwarts, including finding out he was wrong about 
Sirius being a DE and that he was wrong about Harry's childhood, has 
moved him as much as a centimeter. I agree that genuine growth and a 
genuine, heartfelt apology on his part would be best -- oh yes, I 
absolutely agree with that.  But what on Earth could happen after all 
this time that would make such a change believable?  Many fans claimed, 
on the basis of the most slender evidence, that such a change had begun 
at the end of OOTP.  Well, HBP put the old kabosh on THAT.  What could 
possibly happen to cause a change that would not be a MUCH bigger deus 
ex machina/non-sequitur than something like the scenes I've proposed 
(and by the way, I agree that they would each be something of a non-
sequitur, but no worse than the third chapter of HBP -- face it, JKR 
just ain't that much for consistency and coherence)?

One would be for Snape to suddenly say "It was all an act!  I had to 
treat you badly to maintain my status with the DEs!  I really think you 
are a pretty good kid and I'm really, really sorry if anything I did 
hurt you.  Come, take my hand and we'll go destroy Voldemort together!"
Okaaaay.  That would do it, I suppose.  But if, for instance, Minerva 
objecting to Snape is a left hook, that would be a left-right-left and 
a kick in the groin.

Perhaps Snape loved Lily and he will be reminded of this fact, some 
way.  Lily's ghost?  I guess that would do it, if she came back and 
gave him a thorough scalding for how he's treated Harry.  But we would 
have to change her name to Lily Potter nee Deus Ex Machina.  That would 
only be a case of the externally forced growth you dislike.

Maybe looking at Harry's green eyes will do it.  Uh huh.  He's been 
looking at those green eyes all this time and it ain't done squat.  JKR 
has implied that there is magic that wizards do with their eyes.  Maybe 
Harry will use this magic on Snape, and the fact that he does it with 
eyes like Lily's will be significant.  That would fit with JKR's 
pattern of introducing new magic in each book that is important in that 
book.  But where will Harry learn this new magic?  I guess he could if 
he goes back to Hogwarts for seventh year or finds an ancient book in 
Dumbledore's things, etc. And how to avoid this being just a nice 
little "magic bullet" to kill one plot thread and move on, 
methodically, to the next (which, to be fair, I expect we will see a 
lot of in Book VII)?  And it's externally forced growth, again.

Here's an original one.  Perhaps the liquid around the false locket 
contains Snape's true feelings?  They were SOMEBODY'S feelings, after 
all.  Maybe the problem with Snape is that, like many wizards and 
witches out of literature, he has LITERALLY separated himself from his 
better emotions in order to survive.  He doesn't change because the 
parts of his soul that would LET him change aren't in his body, 
anymore. Maybe DD wanted Snape so badly so he could tell him, "Good 
news, Severus!  I've found your better emotions!"  It would also fit 
with the whole horcrux/splitting your soul set of themes.  So Snape is 
reunited with his better feelings, he collapses in remorse, apologizes 
to Harry, explains he's been emotionally dead all these years, etc.  
All right, but if that ain't using a magic bullet to deal with a plot 
issue I don't know what is.

You bring up the issue of DD.  Very good, as he does rest at the heart 
of so many of these discussions (which, by the way, I do not believe 
JKR intended, but that is another issue).   Now, DD is a living Deus Ex 
Machina.  But presumably he's been working on Snape for years, and 
nothing's come of it.  Now, I grant you that JKR's view/portrayal of DD 
has not been very consistant or clear -- in part because I suspect it 
has evolved over the years in response to various things, in part 
because DD is mainly a walking plot device who has to be adapted to the 
needs of a particular situation.  So what will happen that DD hasn't 
tried?  But I acknowledge that's not a fair question, since Harry will 
have to find four horcruxes DD hasn't been able to find in all these 
years, so I guess reforming Snape isn't that much of a leap on that 
front.

What would cause personal growth that doesn't involve a magic bullet, a 
Deus Ex Machina, or the external force you don't like?  Well, I guess 
JKR could go with something simple -- Harry saves Snape from 
death/torture by the DEs, maybe after Snape saves him.  Snape could 
then say, "Oh, you wonderful boy who saved me when you were under no 
obligation to do so!  I see I have been wrong all these years!"  Uh 
huh.  Never mind that Snape has just come under yet another life debt 
to a Potter -- although I suppose if he saves Harry FIRST, the score 
might be even, how do those pesky life debts work, anyway?

Or, to obviate the whole life debt problem, Harry saves Snape from 
torture only to have Snape die in his arms (or maybe Harry saves Draco, 
to boot, just to sweeten the pot).  Snape could say "Oh, wondrous and 
exemplary man!  With my dying breath that doth waft from my shattered 
body I beg forgiveness for any hurt I have inflicted on you in my most 
abominable ignorance!  I humbly beg leave to rise on the wings of your 
forgiveness to whatever reward awaits this poor wretch in the eternal 
source of all life and magic!"  And Harry could say, "Go in peace, 
noble Slytherin.  With mine whole heart I do forgive thee.  Rise to thy 
reward knowing that noble Dumbledore's confidence in thee has been 
fulfilled, aye, and doubly!  Rest in thy reward knowing that my 
children shall honor thy name, and thy house shall hold thee in their 
hearts, the most noble of thy kind, yea unto the end of generations!"  
Excuse me while I use those pages to replenish my toilet paper stocks.

So, in summary, I agree totally with your main point.  What I have 
proposed is a non-sequitur that doesn't make that much sense when put 
against some of the rest of the plot.  I don't think these scenes are 
any worse in terms of inconsistancy than many we have in canon, but oh 
well.  It would be by far for the best for Snape to experience internal 
growth and offer apologies out of his own expanded understanding -- if 
that could be accomplished in any way that wouldn't involve a much 
bigger non-sequitur or Deus Ex Machina than any of the scenarios I was 
toying with.  

But, if you have any scenarios you think COULD accomplish internal 
growth and voluntary apology from Snape WITHOUT such a large wrench to 
the plot, or without using hand-waving and magic bullets, I, for one, 
would love to hear them!


Lupinlore