Did Snape lie in Spinner's End? Was:Re: Snape and GOF

[ellecain]

No: HPFGUIDX 144405

Elyse here, who is enjoying this thread after a posting hiatus:

> >Elyse earlier:
> >During Spinner's End, when Snape said he actively contributed to
> >Sirius' death, I cheered inwardly at what I thought I knew was an
> >absolute lie,
> 
> Orna:
> I don't understand. Why is it assumed, that the only way Snape 
could 
> have boasted to contribute to Sirius' death is by passing the 
> information on Harry's attachment towards Sirius to the Malfoys or 
> to Voldemort? 

Elyse: Oh, I agree there were other ways of contributing to Sirius' 
death, but this was what jumped instinctively to my mind when I read 
it for the first time,it was my initial reaction.
Maybe it was part of my subconscious desire to vindicate Snape's 
being a bad guy, so I took it as a lie on my first reading.
Now of course, I'm not so sure.....

Orna:
He doesn't say – I actively contributed to Harry's 
> allurement to the MoM. As I read it, he could be talking about 
what 
> Harry was thinking:  provoking Sirius to leave his hiding-place. 

Elyse: I dont know...I think that Sirius leaving Grimmauld Place was 
more out of concern for Harry rather than wanting to prove anything 
to Snape. I doubt he would have stayed there like a good boy, even 
if Snape hadnt taunted him. Just my interpretation, of course...if 
Sirius does come back, this would be the first question I would ask 
him.

But assuming that Sirius did leave 12GP due to Snape's "feeble 
taunts", how can Snape brag about it? 
If this is what he was referring to, I'm sure Bella would have 
jeered "Wow, Snape what a contribution, we were out fighting and you 
were exchanging insults?
What a heroic effort you made for the Dark Lord! I'm absolutely 
convinced of your honesty now!"...;-)

Orna:
He 
> could be talking about opening Harry's mind for Voldemort.

Elyse: Well, I'm sceptical of this argument too, since I think 
Dumbledore would know if that was the case. And once again since 
Harry didnt really make any effort at Occlumency, I guess we will 
never find out.
Still, I'd say Harry's mind was quite open enough, and I doubt he 
would have been capable of blocking "the most accomplished 
Legilimens the world has ever seen"... according to Snape and Bella 
anyway.

Orna:
 He could 
> be talking about informing Sirius that Harry is in the MoM.

Elyse: Nope, because even if this is what he was referring to, there 
was a good chance Sirius might stay in 12GP. If Dumbledore had 
arrived a few minutes earlier, he would have held Sirius back, so 
again, not much to brag about IMO, and certainly not in front of the 
two women who had a more active role in killing him.

Orna:
> Actually, it is a double-edged sword - because Voldemort wanted 
> first of all the prophecy, and any connection of Snape towards 
> alarming the order wouldn't be a very wise confession, IMO. So I 
> found it quite risky to admit having anything to do with Sirius' 
> death. It might be a way of a snivelly compliment for Bella's 
ears. 

Elyse: LOLOL Now we know where that nickname came from!
And yes I agree it would have been better not to mention it at all, 
especially as an example of his loyalty!


> Orna:
> Anyway – as I read it could be true in a sense, and a complete 
> hollow lie – just for their ears. 
<snip>
 In light of this, I see Snape exaggerating his part in Sirius' 
> death, not anything more. But from Narcissa's POV it wasn't a lie. 
> And let's say Snape is quite easy in saying it - not being too 
> tormented with grief over Sirius' death.
> 



Elyse: Thats the problem isnt it? How much truth is there in this 
remarkably vague statement? 
I like your scenario, which I snipped, but here again, he hasnt got 
much to brag about, since the information would have got there 
through Kreacher anyway.
If you want to solidly prove your loyalty to someone like Bella, I 
think a more concrete statement would have been better. Some sort of 
indisputable action or evidence...the missing 5 hours for example.;-)
Or he could have exaggerated his role in Emmeline Vance's death 
since "helped" is also very vague and evasive.
 
 Elyse, who likes to think that Snape brought up Sirius' death since 
he had no other evidence to support his claim of loyalty