Whither Snape AND the Dursleys AND Umbridge? (was Re: Cultural standards...)

[Jen Reese]

No: HPFGUIDX 144866

Lupinlore:
> Ah, but was total ruination a satisfactory punishment for stealing 
> the memories of others, as happened with Lockheart?  I would say 
> it is.  Because it very nicely fit his crime, and so must the 
> punishments of Snape, Umbridge, and the Dursleys.  Snape's
> punishment will not be obliviation, if that's what you mean, as
> that does not fit his crime.  However, his punishment will, I
> think, have a similar ring of finality -- not in that it will 
> totally ruin him, he's going to die anyway, but in that it will
> poetically sum up his sins and deal with them.  

Jen: Darn, I've been trying to keep out of the karmic 
justice/punishment threads but you've finally upped the ante high 
enough in this post: Thinking of punishment for Umbridge and Petunia 
is too much fun to pass up. Or rather, payback for *Vernon* more 
than Petunia. Snape, well, I'm holding out hope for him, just need a 
little more backstory.

Lupinlore: 
> While we are on the subject, what then will be the punishment of 
> Umbridge, we might ask?  Or for that matter, the Dursleys?  I have
> a feeling it will involve revelations from Petunia that will be 
> devestating for her to make -- probably along the lines of what 
> Dumbledore was corresponding with her about, which is part of the 
> reason I think his appearance in the third chapter of HBP is part
> of a larger movement in the plot.  It fits nicely with the Howler
> in OOTP and may well segue into whatever happens in Book VII. We
> may even see a certain amount of salvation for Dudley, as JKR has
> hinted in that direction, as did Dumbledore (and of 
> course "salvation" for Dudley might very well equal "ruination" in
> the Dursleys eyes). After all, we have yet to see the 
> vaunted "protection" in action, and it seems beyond belief that
> JKR would just let it slip away without a few pyrotechnics. 

Jen: First characters seen, first on the chopping block then:

1) Dursleys. My absolute favorite punishment for the Dursleys was 
posted here: They will have to hide-out at Grimmauld Place b/c 
Privet Dr. isn't safe. HAH! 

The other running ones are that Petunia is actually a witch who 
renounced her heritage and lives as a Muggle, or that 'that awful 
boy' will prove to be about a relationship Petunia had before 
Vernon. Either of these could come back to haunt the Dursleys, I 
think. (And I have canon theories about both these if someone wants 
to fight over specifics <g>). Oh, and your idea about Dudley's 
salvation/ruination is top-notch. Something to do with that memory 
brought forth by the Dementors? Classic. Hopefully JKR didn't 
totally ruin this possibility when she said there's no mystery to 
Dudley, he's exactly as he seems.(Edinburgh festival comment) That 
wouldn't rule out a change in the future, would it?

Now *Umbridge* is easy--she's going to have a run-in with the 
Dementors and be saved by Harry. There, how's that? Am I getting 
into the spirit here?

Lupinlore:
> As to JKR not seeking justice for the sins of Umbridge, Snape, and 
> the Dursleys -- frankly, all of this reminds me of opinions we
> heard before HBP.  "We will never hear about Harry's scar again,
> life isn't fair and he has to learn to deal with it.  Umbridge 
> will NOT be returning, JKR has already pronounced sentence and
> dealt with that situation.  Dumbledore will never again make any
> mention of the Dursleys or their treatment of Harry."  Those all
> turned out to be completely mistaken, and I am quite confident
> that the idea that Snape will get off scot free, or that the
> Dursleys do not have some more paying to do, or that Umbridge will
> simply slip along without more torture, will turn out to be
> completely mistaken as well.

Jen: Well, the archives are chock-full of ideas, events and theories 
that never came to pass no matter how juicy and delicious they 
sounded at the time. It does happen. We know JKR is not finished 
with Petunia and Umbridge because she said so, hinting there 
is 'more to Petunia that meets the eye' and outright stating she 
isn't finished toying with Umbridge. Snape? No words of wisdom about 
his future from the author to go on, but the trail for him is 
littered with clues of backstory rather than the reverse, hints that 
the past has meaning for the present. Rather than seeing him tied up 
into a nice bundle and sent off down the river, I expect to hear 
some startling information that will unweave him in Harry's eyes.

This is fun to think about, but in the end I think JKR toys mainly 
with minor characters like Lockhart, Umbridge, Bagman, etc. When 
more major characters are dealt blows, they fall into two 
categories: 1) Natural consequences stemming from choices and 2) 
When Bad Things Happen to Good People or 'why crappy things happen 
in the world for no reason'.

Fudge is an example of the former, losing his job for his abysmal 
performance in OOTP. Percy's separation from his family and the 
increasing resentment on both sides is painful for several of the 
Weasleys. And the second category? If JKR is really going for the 
karmic justice of most characters in the book, she'd better have a 
good explantion for *Harry* first and foremost, then the Potters, 
Frank and Alice Longbottom, Neville, Cedric and a few others I could 
think of.....

Jen