*When* did Dumbledore die?

[Ceridwen]

No: HPFGUIDX 145126

Pippin:
*(snipping timeline after tower AK)*
> Give it fifteen minutes at least, maybe even a half an hour.
> 
> After all that he reaches Dumbledore's body
> There's a trickle of blood from the mouth. We've argued
> a lot over what could have caused it and that's JKR's
> genius. Because what we've  all missed is this:
> 
> It was fresh enough to wipe away. 
> 
> Corroborating canon comes from chapter 8, where the
> much more copious bleeding from Harry's broken nose 
> has dried by the time Harry reaches the Great Hall.
> Hermione needs a spell to siphon it off.

Ceridwen:
Interesting point.  And, personally, I do believe it.  The time 
between the AK and Harry reaching Dumbledore's body can't have been 
too short.  But to be objective, I wonder if the night was damp, or 
if the blood took a while to emerge?  Or if the potion had some 
effect on the blood's coagulation?

Pippin:
> Dumbledore  could have had magic enough to 
> slow himself even without his wand. We know  that 
> wandless, untrained Tom Riddle was able to get Billy Stubbs's 
> rabbit up into the rafters.
> 
> The odd angle of his arms and legs, even broken bones,
> could have been caused by convulsions. Dumbledore
> died of the poison, IMO, some ten or twenty minutes 
> after he'd fallen from the tower. He may have been
> conscious long enough to open the locket, he may
> have decided not to call for aid in order to preserve
> Snape's cover and keep the vow from going into effect,
> or because his first priority was to see that Snape and
> Harry got the Death Eaters out of the school. Any
> way you slice it, neither of them is a murderer in this
> scenario. Death by misadventure.

Ceridwen:
Or he could have gone unconscious almost immediately after reaching 
the ground.  He was already weak on the tower, and it could even be 
that he was blacking out in short bursts before Snape ever arrived.  
I don't know about poisons or potions, but if someone is very tired, 
they catch mere seconds-long catnaps at various intervals, according 
to some things I've read.  Weakness can have much the same effect, 
and he is already losing his strength, sliding down the wall as he 
makes the effort to talk to Draco.  At that point, I think, 
Dumbledore is conscious only through supreme will.  And all of his 
energy is going into his voice.  Even if he was fully conscious the 
whole time, he was weak.  Once he stopped fighting it, he would have 
blacked out/died.

I don't know who he could have called for.  He seemed to think Snape 
was the only one who could help.  Snape was busy.  And even if he did 
manage to call, who would have heard him?  He was weak, and it would 
probably have come out more like his pleading than a strong, sure 
voice.  And, being weak, if he used his last effort at magic to slow 
his fall, he might not have been strong enough to use magical means 
to get attention.  And, he had lost his wand, so no Patronus.  (btw, 
does the book mention where his wand got to?  I don't recall)

As for convulsions breaking bones, I'll have to take your word.  I've 
heard that people with seizures can injure themselves pretty badly if 
they're not restrained, but I have no knowledge or experience.

But, what would have killed him, then?  Not the fall from the tower 
if he managed to slow himself.  And, not the AK if he was alive 
enough to slow himself.  It would either have to be the poison, or 
the earlier injury to his hand and arm.

Pippin: 
> There's a simple spell, by the way, which could clear Snape
> of the AK or convict him *and* allow Dumbledore to explain 
> what he meant by his last word. Priori incantatem. If there's no 
> shade of Dumbledore,then Dumbledore was not AK'd by Snape's 
> wand. If there is, then Dumbledore's shade can either accuse 
> Snape or explain why Snape should not be blamed for killing him.

Gerry:
But then they have to catch Snape first, and perform that spell. They
did not bother with Sirius, so why would they now?

Ceridwen:
That was a different administration that imprisoned Sirius without 
trial.  But Scrimgeour's government doesn't seem to have a much 
better track record, see Stan Shunpike.  Held?  How long can they 
hold him before bringing him to trial?

But, if they catch the murderer, or 'murderer', of Albus Dumbledore, 
they'll probably want to make a show out of the arrest and trial.  
That would certainly show they're doing something!  Competent counsel 
should be able to get the Priori Incantatem used in court if Snape 
maintains his innocence.  Or, a competent prosecution might ask for 
it.

Interesting idea, Pippin!  I think I'm going to study on it a bit 
more.  Just my first inclinations here.

Ceridwen.