Slughorn /Heroes or not

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 145186

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> Alla:
> 
> When did Snape save Ron? Just curious.
> 

Pippin:
In PoA  he rescued Ron, Harry, Hermione and Sirius.

It wasn't  just a matter of Snape coming round and conjuring 
stretchers. Harry  and Hermione had run down to the lake to help 
Sirius, leaving the unconscious Snape and Ron behind.  Snape 
must have gone to look for the others once he came round,
since TT!Harry sees them all at the shore of the lake. They were
in graver danger than Snape knew, since Pettigrew would have
nothing to fear if they were all dead.

That was a brave thing to do, IMO, considering that as far as 
Snape knew there was a werewolf and an escaped murderer 
prowling the grounds and the dementors were retreating and 
wouldn't be coming to help if Sirius found him. Not exactly the 
Slytherin ideal of saving your own skin first.

> Potioncat:
> Slughorn didn't favor his  own House, but he did favor those 
who could possibly return favors  in the future.
> 
> Alla:
> 
> I would phrase it differently - he favored those with real talent 
> AND therefore they would achieve a lot and return favors to him.
> 
> 
> You know, it is strange, I am  still trying to work out why Slughorn 
> club gives me creeps and really cannot, because I don't see anything 
> inherently bad in the Slughorn way of doing things . Typically 
> Slytherin, but not inherently bad, IMO. The best I can come up with 
> is that Dumbledore's warning to Harry sounded as a warning to me 
> too, but I still want to figure out why what Slughorn does is bad.

Pippin:
One reason it's bad is that Slughorn's club is dedicated only to the
advancement of its members.  Slughorn has no interest in helping 
the weak and unconnected, no interest at all in joining the Order. 

Think of the help his connections could bring. He's been in hiding 
*for a year*  at the beginning of  HBP.  Know what that means? 
He could have used his connections to persuade the WW that 
Harry was telling the truth.  He's real proud of knowing the
person who invented the wolfsbane potion, but it hasn't 
occurred to him to help the socially ostracized werewolves. Lupin
doesn't get invited to dinner parties.

> Alla:
> 
> No, redemption is NOT necessarily the same as being the Hero, true,
> but to me after HBP Snape fallen so deeply that the only way he can
> gain redemption is to play a pivotal role in defeating Voldemort and
> that IMO IS Harry's job. Posters argue ( Sydney?) that Hermione,
> Ron, Lupin help Harry too. Too true, they do, BUT I have never seen
> either Hermione or Ron or Lupin occupy CENTRAL place in the fight,
> IMO of course and I am not sure we will see it in the last book.
> HELP Harry defeat Voldemort? - Yes, take his place in defeating
> Voldemort - I personally doubt it very much.

Pippin:
If Snape has been redeemed and is innocent, then maybe Harry has
to save him from being killed out of hand. Then Snape will be
able to do something that proves he's redeemed but  is nevertheless 
secondary to defeating Voldemort. Like rescuing someone Harry 
cares about and can't save because he has to go on and face Voldemort.

I think it plays into JKR's theme that the ultimate virtue is courage.
What use is redemption if nobody has the courage to accept the
lost sheep back into the fold?

I see Snape as someone who has skewed values but nevertheless
a great deal of moral courage. True, he doesn't see anything wrong with
terrorizing children to get them to study and as far as he's concerned
the House competitions aren't about merit and fair play, they're about
*winning*. He takes it as a personal affront if otherwise talented
students don't do well in his class. He thinks Harry owes him something
on account of James, though to be fair,  according to Dumbledore, 
he's also trying to *save*  Harry  for similar reasons. 

But there are things that Snape now believes are *right*, and regardless of
what he did in the past, he is  willing to risk his life for them. That
makes him very different from Slughorn.

And there are things that Snape believes are *wrong*, and he won't 
be intimidated or compromised into going along with them.
That makes him very different from Lupin. 

All IMO, of course. And I could be wrong.

Pippin