Heroes and Not - What should Snape Have Done?/ Slughorn LONG

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 145254

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "dumbledore11214"
<dumbledore11214 at y...> wrote:
>
> bboyminn:
> <SNIP>
> > So, I answer your last question first-
> > ALLA: "Did I answer your question?"
> > 
> > to which I answer - NO.
> 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Oh well then. I am going to try again, but I am afraid that
> I won't be able to give the answer that will satisfy you.
> :-) Sorry!
>  
> 
> > bboyminn: 
> > 
> > Yes, but we can't travel back into the past with a lot of
> > wishful thinking. We have to start at the top of the tower
> > as thing are at that point in time ...
> <BIG SNIP>
> > Yes, the Unbreakable Vow was a mistake, but the third Vow
> > was somewhat forced on him by circumstances, ...
> 
> Alla:
> 
> I have to disagree and disagree quite strongly. I think that UV
> and Tower are so closely connected that we cannot NOT travel back
> in time in order to answer that question very strongly.
> 
> IMO, taking UV from the beginning was foolishness, recklessness, 
> idiocy, take your pick....
> 

bboyminn:

Quick note here, I'm not saying the UV is of NO significants. It
certainly has consequences, and it certainly complicates matters.
But it also does have some grey area to it.


> ...edited...
> 
> 
> 
> > bboyminn:
> > 
> > So, you expect Snape to sacrific himself on the off and
> > slim chance that his own death might afford Dumbledore 
> > some level of protection?
> > ...
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Not at all. I was talking about Lily's sacrifice mainly to argue 
> that self-sacrifice is not a senseless thing. I don't expect Snape 
> to just throw his life away, but to start fighting  and TRY as I 
> said to defend Dumbledore and the boys. Not fighting with 
> expectation to die, but expectation to survive. ...edited...
> 

bboyminn:

Sorry I completely misunderstood what you were getting at. I took you
to say that Snape would protect Dumbledore by sacrificing himself.
That way Snape would pass a 'sacrificial' protection to Dumbledore in
the same way that Lily passed sacrificial protection on to Harry.

Now, I see that that is of course NOT what you intended to say, and
that does change things somewhat. Now, with the correct,
interpretation of your intent, it is simply a matter of how well Snape
can defend himself at the top of the tower.

One point that I did emphasize with conscious intent, is that the top
of the tower affords everyone limited space, and no protective cover.
In otherwords, open close-quarters fighting. Depending on the
circumstance that could work to the advantage of either side. But some
one WILL definitely find an advantage in it. 

I certainly can't argue as strongly against Snape making a fight of
it, as I did for Snape's hopefull self-sacrific, but it is still an
extreme gamble. If he could count on Dumbledore's help, I would say
differently, but at the time, Dumbledore can't even stand up, and
probably can't get to his wand. That doesn't bode well for Dumbledore
or Snape.  

So, the chances of Snape surviving are not good. He might get lucky
and he might not. But either way, it's a tremendous gamble.

In the course of action Snape did choose, Dumbledore dies, but
everyone else lives. Draco is not at immediate risk. Harry doesn't
jump into the battle at the top of the tower, so his risk is
minimized. Snape gets the DE's out of the castle so they can do no
more damage. Snape protect Harry from the other DE's. Snape defends
himself, but doesn't attack Harry. Snape also warns Harry, and hints
at the areas he needs to concentrate on if he has any hope of
defeating Voldemort. 

Despite the dark and tragic loss of Dumbledore, Snape ends the siege
with minimal damage. Further Snape preserves and even improves his
position in Voldemort organization. He can still be usefull to the
Order. With your method, win, lose, or draw, Snape is out of the
picture; he goes from being the most important spy, to, at best, just
being another soldier in the battle. That in itself is a substantial
loss to the Order.

My point isn't that Snape had no other choices, it is that Snape had
no other /good/ choices. He choice, in a sense, the path of least
resistance, and the path of least damage. He maximized his future
value, while minimizing his short term loses. That seems like
effective strategy, and Dumbledore, great a loss as it is, is still an
exceptable trade off UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES.

Notice that I make my argument without reference to the Umbreakable
Vow. Add that to the equation and Snape really doesn't have many
choices at all. It is possible that the minute Snape acts to defend
Dumbledore, the Vow will kick in and Snape will be dead, and that
probably, most likely, means that Dumbledore's death will quickly
follow. I try not to rely on the UV too much in making my arguments,
because of its unpredictability, but none the less, in the moment, it
is a huge consideration for Snape, and colors his actions greatly.

Just a few thoughts.

Steve/bboyminn