Snape and Prophecy and Harry WAS:Re: TBAY: Definitely NOT a Snape Theory (long)

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 145433

> Pippin:
> I would think they had stopped being just any Order members
> after they had defied Voldemort three times. Whether they did that
> before or after Voldemort knew about the prophecy doesn't matter
> very much, except that it would lessen Snape's culpability a bit if
> as far as he knew no one had ever done so.

Alla:

Right, I think it is matters very much, but we have to agree to 
disagree on it.


Pippin:
>  It diminishes James and Lily's heroism to say that they wouldn't 
have
> voluntarily risked their lives to confront   Voldemort, just as it
> diminishes Sirius's heroism to say that he only went to save Harry 
> because he had to prove he wasn't a coward.

Alla:

I think it is SO very irrelevant to Snape's culpability as to 
whether James and Lily would have voluntarily risked their lives to 
confront Voldemort. I am sure they would have done so, but I am also 
quite positive that it was NOT Snape's business to speed up the 
process, which may have never happened in the first place.


Pippin:

 At bottom, Harry's
> need to blame Snape is a selfish one: James, Lily, Sirius and
> Dumbledore ultimately chose to leave him orphaned rather than 
> abandon the fight against Voldemort, and Harry doesn't 
> want to deal with that.
> 
> Readers of the Discworld series will be familiar with Captain
> Carrot's mantra, "Personal is not the same as important." 
> I think the same principle is being illustrated here.


Alla:

Oh, of course, how DARE Harry is to blame  the person who told 
Voldemort that his parents are the parents of the one who will 
dispose with Voldy eventually?

Selfish Harry, very selfish. How dare he think  that but for Snape's 
involvement he may have grown up in happy home and not abusive one? 

Of course Snape is NOT to blame for blabbing prophecy to Voldemort, 
because Lily and James would have died in any event. He is also NOT 
to blame for treating Harry like dirt in the classroom, because 
Harry needs to be kept in line or because Harry can deal with it or 
because Snape is too damaged and cannot help himself. :-)

As to your argument that Dumbledore , Sirius and James and Lily 
chose to leave him orphaned, rather than abandon the fight, that it 
is IMO at the least unproven and at the most simply incorrect.

Yes, they did not abandon the fight, but they also were not 
abandoning Harry, IMO. They were protecting Harry and from all those 
people only Lily as we know was ready to die, knowing that Harry may 
be left with nobody. Even James was probably hoping that Harry will 
have Lily.

We have NO conclusive proof, IMO that Dumbledore wanted to die AT 
ALL, on the contrary, I think that Dumbledore would give anything to 
continue helping Harry in his mission and of course I see zero proof 
that Sirius wanted to die, CHOSE to die in MOM, I bet he wanted to 
save Harry and at the end live a long happy life with Harry after 
war. IMO anyway.

So, NO I don't buy "chose to leave him orphaned" at all. More 
like "died protecting him" IMO and with this Harry deals and deals 
very maturely.

"And Harry saw very clearly as he sat there under the hot sun how 
people who cared about him had stood in front of him one by one, his 
mother, his father, his godfather, and finally Dumbledore, all 
determined to protect him; but now that was over. He could not let 
anybody else stand between  him and Voldemort; he must abandon 
forever the illusion he ought to have  lost at the age of one, that 
the shelter of the parent's arms meant that nothing could hurt him. 
There was no waking from his nightmare, no comforting whisper in the 
dark that he was safe really, that it was all in his imagination; 
the last and the greatest of his protectors had died and he was 
more  alone that he had ever been before" - p.645.


I do NOT think that this mindset is very healthy for sixteen years 
old, but it is sure needed for the Chosen one to end the battle. I 
hope that Harry will get a support from loving adult at the end ( 
Lupin, please JKR?), but I guess if that happens that only happens 
in the epilogue, no earlier than that.

JMO,

Alla