Snape and Prophecy and Harry WAS:Re: TBAY: Definitely NOT a Snape Theory (lo

[ornadv]

No: HPFGUIDX 145518

>Alla:
>I said that earlier, but it bears repeating - I don't think we know
>that Potters thrice defied Voldemort before Snape delivered the
>Prophecy, I mean it is POSSIBLE of course and that would certainly
>Potters were already on "special hit list", but I don't think we
>know for sure. I can easily see Potters barely escaping Voldemort's
>wrath three times when they were already in hiding.

Orna:
I'm not sure that defying Voldemort trice means they were initially 
on a special hitlist. The thing is that most people don't survive 
the first encounter. The more you defy him – the more you 
get "upgraded" on his hit-list – you begin to look like a potential 
threat. Just by ordinary mathematical killers-rules. 
Anyway I understood that since the prophecy indicated parents who 
had defied Voldemort trice – it took place before they were chosen 
by Voldemort. 
So, as I see it, the prophecy would be sure to direct Voldemort's 
attention to the Potters and the Longbottoms. 


>Pippin:
>This is interesting because the timeline Snape gave to Bella doesn't
>match the one JKR has given to us. According to JKR the Potters were
>already in hiding when Harry was christened, but Snape tells Bella 
>he defected when he took up his teaching post. (According to OOP,
>Snape had been teaching for fourteen years.)

>If Snape was the spy who told Dumbledore that someone
>was after the Potters, then contrary to what Voldemort thinks,
>he actually defected a year before Voldemort sent
>him to Hogwarts. 

Orna:
Perhaps I don't understand, but I don't see the problem. A DDM!Snape 
could have gone over to DD's side, passing information. DD sent the 
Potters into hiding, and it took Snape some time to manipulate 
Voldemort somehow to send him as a spy to Hogwarts. He would want to 
be posted there, but he needed it to be on Voldemort's orders. 

Just like an ESE!Snape would need DD's order to join the DE at the 
end of GoF. That's how double spies are supposed to work, IMO, 
spinning their endless plots, until they get caught up in them.

But as I said, perhaps I didn't understand something about the 
timetable-problem – if so please explain.

>Jen:
>No one who has spent time with Voldemort would expect him to take 
>a 'wait and see' approach to the prophecy. That's not in his 
>psychological make-up and both Snape and Dumbledore know that. 

Orna:
I can see what you mean, but I'm not fully sure. I agree that  
Voldemort wouldn't hesitate for mercy-reasons, and his usual way of 
dealing with obstacles (Cedric, Frank) is to kill immediately, no 
second thought spared. 
But still: 
DD said that "You have no idea of the remorse Professor Snape felt 
when he realized how Lord Voldemort had interpreted the prophecy". 
So it seems that there was something unexpected in the way Voldemort 
decided to go. Or just Snape wasn't aware it turned out to be people 
he knew, and was in a life dept towards one of them? Maybe - but 
that had nothing to do with Voldemort's interpretation - it was just 
a fact that the Potter's were potentially fullfilling the terms. 
Don't know.
 
Perhaps:
Voldemort has sometimes a sense of perverted dignity coupled with a 
need to prove himself – like in GoF, when he wants to duel with 
Harry. Like in CoS when he feels he wants to challenge his powers 
against Harry's.
And besides, this wait-and-see, as I see it, is not because he has 
no faith in the prophecy, contrary – because he would have wanted to 
be sure he picked the right boy – he might have wanted to wait. 


>Jen:
>I guess you could say Sirius should have known Voldemort would 
>target Peter as the weak link in the chain, but they aren't on the 
>same scale to me. Besides the fact Sirius wasn't working for 
>Voldemort, making a mistake in the act of trying to protect and 
>making a mistake in the act of trying to harm are two different 
>kinds of mistakes.

Orna:
We know Snape had been a DE. The question IMO is what do we accept 
for being an acceptable act/s for accepting him to be one of the 
good guys. It's a really difficult question, because being a DE he 
is sure to have caused harm, or might even be deaths – directly or 
non-directly, on top of his part in Potters death. We know from 
Bellatrix that he probably wasn't very active, slitherin out of 
action. Probably did a lot of cunning plans, potions and spell-
inventing, which IMO are also quite harmful. But the question is – 
what do we expect a change of sides to include?  
Sirius is on another level - I don't think anybody would really send 
him to Azkaban for the mistake he did. Anybody – except his guilt-
feelings. Or JKR as a sort of karmic punishment? Looks harsh, IMO. 
As it is, he lost his best friends that would be enough for me to 
account for a karmic punishment. I don't feel that every misfortune 
which comes to a character means punishment – not even in a karmic 
sense. JKR's world pictures lots of suffering, not very explained or 
rationalizable, IMO. But that's part of the books appeal, because I 
think it resonates with a feeling about how things might be in the 
RW – not every suffering can be justified as karmic punishment.

Orna