Confusion about the TT. DD knows everything...

[cubfanbudwoman]

No: HPFGUIDX 124101


vmonte:
> <snip>
> She was given permission to use it for her classes but it gave her
> several months of training until she got to use it for Dumbledore's
> intended purpose.
 
Betsy responded:
> How on earth did Dumbledore know that Hermione would
> need to use the Time Turner by the end of the year? Wouldn't
> that mean he would also know that Sirius was innocent and that
> Scabbers was Wormtail? It doesn't make sense to me, and
> frankly, the whole story falls apart if Dumbledore knew what was
> coming.<<
 
then Sandra:
> BINGO! An excellent point, Betsy, and I agree entirely. I hadn't
> even considered the "months of training" scenario, and it's rather
> wide of the mark. Dumbledore's role is vague enough
> (especially in OoTP where he witholds info from Harry all the way
> through) without him being elevated to a "He Who Knows All"
> status.
 
vmonte now:
> I understand what you are both saying but consider this:

> "No, it isn't," said Harry thoughtfully. "He's a funny man,
> Dumbledore. I think he sort of wanted to give me a chance. I think
> he knows more or less everything that goes on here, you know. I
> reckon he had a pretty good idea we were going to try, and instead 
> of stopping us, he just taught us enough to help. I don't think it 
> was an accident he let me find out how the mirror worked. It's 
> almost like he thought I had the right to face Voldemort if I 
> could..."
> 
> This bit of information is in book 1. It implies pre-planning by
> Dumbledore as well as the possible training of students by
> Dumbledore. Dumbledore didn't really know Harry as yet since this 
> is his first year of school. How did he guess/know that Harry 
> would go after Voldemort?
> 
> Why didn't he think to give Harry Chess lessons as well? What good
> would it do Harry to understand the mirror if he couldn't get past
> the chess game? Did he already know that Ron excelled in chess? How
> about Snape's Potion Riddle. Do you really think that Harry or Ron
> would have figured this one out? They would have been stuck there 
> for years. How lucky for Harry that Hermione just happened to be 
> with them...
> 
> Vivian
> 
> (SSSusan do you remember our theory now?)

SSSusan:
Yup, I sure do.  To start off with, Vmonte, I really don't know how 
much I think DD knew about Hermione & Ron and any role they might 
play, or whether that just turned out to be lucky for Harry.  But my 
notion, in contrast to Betsy's, is that DD *did* set this 
whole "obstacle course" up for Harry [and let's say possibly for 
Hermione/Ron].  Why do I think this?  

First, I think the fact that the tasks were all solvable by three 
FIRST-YEAR Hogwarts students -- two of whom have just found out 
they're witch/wizard -- implies that they weren't all *that* 
difficult.  I believe this was intentional on DD's part.  [Wait--
stay with me here!]

Second, the *reason* I think DD set up these tasks was to test 
Harry's mettle, to find out about Harry -- what kind of kid is he? 
how brave? how resourceful? how committed to helping others?  He set 
up the obstacle course, knowing that Harry might do nothing.  That 
would tell him something.  But if he *did* go after the Stone, how 
Harry handled the challenges would answer a lot of questions for 
DD.  

I mean, lots of kids, even if they knew about the presence of 
something as valuable as the SS/PS and suspected that a bad guy was 
after it, would just shrug their shoulders and say, "Oh, well.  Too 
bad *I* can't do anything about it."  I think DD wants to find out 
if Harry is one of those kids.  I think DD wants to find out just 
how much Harry can handle.  And I think he was THRILLED with what he 
discovered.

Think about it.  DD had a perfect set-up to do this.  EVEN if the 
initial obstacles were "easy" to get past, there was that final 
obstacle DD set up -- the Mirror of Erised.  DD knew Harry had 
encountered it, knew what it did & how it worked.  He also knew that 
if a bad guy got to the mirror, he WOULDN'T be able to get past it.  
Why?  Because that person would want to USE the stone for his own 
purposes.  Whereas, assuming Harry got that far, DD was hoping that 
Harry *would* be able to get the stone precisely because he WOULDN'T 
want to use it [for himself]; he'd just want to stop the bad guy 
from getting it [which isn't "using" it in my book].

It's really a nifty little plan of DD's.  Find out about Harry's 
nature, his inclinations, his skills & talents, his 
resourcefulness.  But build in that ingenious protection at the end 
which would prevent the evil guy from getting the stone even if 
Harry doesn't get through it all.

The only thing I truly believe DD didn't count on was being called 
away as part of a ruse.  I do believe [well, I want to believe!] 
that DD wouldn't have left Harry so *totally* on his own on 
purpose.  Rather, I think he planned to be handy, to help out if 
Harry needed it, and I do think he was truly shaken by how close he 
came to NOT being handy.  

But I think he was *very* pleased with what he found out about Harry!

Did I do okay, Vmonte? :-)

Siriusly Snapey Susan