*MY* confusion about the Time Turner (getting long here)

[kgpopp]

No: HPFGUIDX 124109



> > > Tammy Rizzo wrote:
> > > HOW can anyone POSSIBLY be confused about the Time 
> > > Turner? It's so simple and straightforward, after 
> > > all. Everything happens as it happens, as it has 
> > > always happened, as it will always happen; nobody 
> > > changes anything, nobody *can* change anything-- 
> > > 'Time' only happens once, no matter how many 
> > > times a character travels through it. All a Time 
> > > Turning character can do is what he's already done,
> > > so what *IS* the big confusion? There is no 'first 
> > > time/second time' of anything -- it's all THE ONLY
> > > TIME.
[snip further discussion between Tammy and Laurasia]

> > Tammy R:
> > As I've been saying, what has happened has already happened, 
> > thanks  to the choices made  *as* things happened, but it's only 
> > the past that is set and unchangeable.  The future is 
> > undetermined and very, very plastic.  Every character is still 
> > free to make their own choices, but the choices that they have 
> >*already* made, and what has *already* happened because 
> > of those choices, has already come to pass, and cannot be changed.

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Now Kristen,

I have loved reading this thread and following the debate.  And I 
tend to be inclinded to agree with Tammy's theory on time travel but
 
I had a few questions I wanted to pose.

Okay I know we've all ready the book so these event my be in our past 
but lets pretend that at the present time and Harry, Ron & Hermione 
are in Hagrid's cabin finding the rat.  At this same time (in the 
present) TT!Harry and TT!Hermione are ouside the cabin arguing; and 
TT! Hermione convices TT!Harry not to burst in and grab 
scabbers/peter.   So far so good everyone has a choice and events 
happen based on those choices.   

Now current!harry, current!Ron and current!Hermione head back to the 
castle and think that BB dies when they hear the swish.  But what 
really happens at this same time (in the present) is TT!Hary and TT!
Hermione untie bb and save BB from being killed and McNair swings his 
axe in anger.  Again following the theory 
 everyone has choice and 
events happen because of those choices.  No Paradox, history is not 
changed.

But now fast forward (w/o a time turner) to the hospital and current!
DD says 3 turns ought to do the trick (or something close to that 
anyway).   Now at this present time we have current!harry and current!
Hermione in the hospital listening to current!DD.   At the same time 
we also have TT!Harry & TT!Hermione heading back to the hospital.

So here is my question, now in the present do current!Harry and 
current!Hermione have a choice about using the time turner?    Can 
they choose not to go?  Can they go back 4 hours?  Can they go back 
2?  

If they do use the time turner and only go back 3 hours everything 
works out as it did in the now past  (e.g BB is saved).   But if they 
don't choose to use the time turner then what happens?   Do TT!Harry 
and TT!Hermione suddently disappear from the hallway?  Does bb die in 
the now past?  

Up untill now everyone was making choices in "the present" and the 
consquense followed those choices; but now it seems that Harry & 
Hermione are predetermined to go back in time 3 hours because in the 
past they were already there.  This is what I think is the paradox. 
And where the cause – effect relationship get interesting.

If everything tied-out with no questions what fun would that be.  I 
think this is the magical part of time travel and the reason they 
study it in the MOM.  And this is also why I think JK does a good job 
with the time turner because it fits in with the magical world she 
has created.  She did not use the time turner to create a 
perfect "hollywod end" but rather left us with some questions.  How 
much choice do we have? How much is pre-determined?  How are these 
loops in time  connected?   If there was no mystery, if it all made 
perfect sense or followed some clever rules of physics then it would 
be sciFi (Which I love but is not what the WW is about).




My other shorter question is what about using time turners to go 
forward in time?   Does anyone think this is possible and if so how 
does that impact the question of what is the present, what happened 
is what happened?