Voldie Immortal?? -Speculation (was- Dumbledore the General)

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 124277


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff Bannister"
<gbannister10 at a...> wrote:
> 
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at y...> wrote:
> 
> bboyminn:
>  
> > Filled with speculation, as I always am, this is my take on
> > Voldemort's current status.
>  
> > I believe that Voldemort (generally speaking) can't be killed, but 
> > he is not immortal.
>  
> > That my seem like a contradiction, so let me explain.
>  
> > Voldemort has guarded himself against external death. That is, he
> > can't be killed by an external causes like a Death Curse, or most
> > accidents.
> 
> <snipped>
> 
> Geoff: 
> I'm not totally sure about this. Can I run some pieces of canon past 
> you? 
> 
> Well, I'm going to anyway :-)
> 
> ...edited quotes form books...
> 
> If Voldemort is invincible, why is he definitely not a happy bunny 
> in the graveyard? He is frightened; what does he fear? He considers 
> himself the greatest sorcerer in the world so what's bugging him?
> 
> And again, Dumbledore certainly seems to think that he can be killed 
> and Voldemort, from some of his comments seems to think the same. I 
> suppose his challenge to Dumbledore when he is possesing Harry is 
> bravado; ....edited...but I think there is enough evidence from 
> Voldemort's own reactions and fear and his interchange with 
> Dumbledore to suggest that he hasn't ruled out the possibility of 
> suddenly "shuffling off this mortal coil".


bboyminn:

Well, first and foremost, getting killed hurts, and no one likes pain.

"Aaah...pain beyond pain ...I was ripped from my body..." (pg 653)

In addition, in the graveyard scene, Voldemort has just gotten his
body back, he certainly wasn't eager to lose it again.  Also,
Voldemort had is 'old body' and his 'old strength' back. Many assume
that means he has the same level of protection he had before his
encounter with Harry at Godric's Hollow. 

In the same graveyard scene Voldemort says that the night of Godrics
Hollow, one or more of his protections against death had worked, and
that he/Voldie had gone father down the road to immortality than any
other person. Although, he says he gone WAY down that road, it's clear
he hasn't made it to his final destination yet.

(GoF pg 653) "...I was ripped from my body... but still, I was alive.
...I, who have gone further than anybody along the path that leads to
immortality. You know my goal -- to conquer death. ...it appeared that
one or more of my experiments had worked ...for I had not been killed..." 

So, he can't be killed, but that doesn't mean attempts to kill him are
not without danger and risk. 

As to Voldemort's reaction to the Brother Wand incident, clearly
things are not going the way Voldemort planned. He certainly didn't
expext the wands to join and create the golden cage. He certainly
didn't think Harry could overpower him and force the 'light beads'
back into his own wand, and was appropraitely shocked when the most
recent people he had killed started coming back out of his wand. All
in all, it was a bad day for the Dark Wizard; frustrating and
frightening. 

In the scene with Dumbledore at the Ministry Atrium where they dueled,
I see nothing to indicate the Voldemort is any more or less fearful of
death in the moment than Dumbledore, and for the record, Dumbledore
seems pretty bold and confident. 

I guess I base my premise on two things. First, by his own admission,
Voldemort has done things to protect himself from death and they seem
to be effective. (see quote above) 

Second clearly, he has not reach the state of immortality, he said
that in unambiguous terms.

(GoF Pg 656) "...I was willing to embrace mortal life again, before
chasing immortality. ...I would settle for my old body back, and my
old strength."

-Voldemort has protected himself from death, and demonstrated the
effectiveness.
-Voldemort is mortal, he can die.
-Voldemrot is not immortal, he can die.
-Voldemort has is old body, and old strength, and we can reasonably
assume his old protections.

So how do we resolve the statement that he has protected himself from
death and demonstrated that fact, with the statement that he is not
immortal; he can't live forever.

I condense that down into, can't be killed, but can die.

Expanding to my original premise to explain this contradiction, I
conclude that he can't be killed by external forces (generally
speaking), but is still living and aging in a mortal life. That is,
can't die from external causes, but can die from internal causes; an
AK wouldn't kill him, but a heart attack might.

I haven't heard a better explanation of 'being protected from death,
while at the same time, not being immortal'. 

Hey, it's speculation, it's what I do best.

Steve/bboyminn

PS: Climactic final scene, Harry hits Voldemort with an Accelerated
Aging Curse and Voldie ages 500 years in 5 seconds; the curse didn't
kill him, time and age did, witness the pile of Voldie dust on the
floor. Bada-Bing Bada-Boom. You heard it here first.