James, a paragon of virtue? Was: Why Do You Like Sirius?

[finwitch]

No: HPFGUIDX 124460



> Valky now:

> 
> I kind of see that this is foreshadowed by an unspoken exchange 
> between them in the pensieve scene. 
> 
> Lily says: What's he ever done to you.
> James says: Well it's because he exists.. If you know what I mean.
> Lily says: You think you're funny. You're just and arrogant 
bullying 
> toerag
> Later...
> Snape says: ...filthy Mudbloods like her.
> Lily says: Fine.. I won't bother in the future. And I'd wash your 
> pants if I were you *Snivellus*
> James says: Apologise to Evans.
> Lily says: I don't want *you* to make him apologise. you're just as 
> bad as he is.
> James says: WHAT! I'd never call you a - you-know-what!
> 
> Ok before we start arguing a retranslation let me pre-empt.
> Notice when James says I would never call you a you know what, 
There 
> is NO emphasis on the word "you" and piles of emphasis on the "you-
> know-what". So anyone about to argue that that line is all about 
how 
> he feels about Lily, and not how he feels about purebloodism, bad 
> luck, you can't prove it. ;P
> 
> If Lily doesn't understand what James means when he says, Well its 
> because he exists if you know what I mean" then why doesn't she 
> answer with, "No I don't know what you mean you bullying toerag!" 
> She *knows* what he means, and he knows that it's something that 
> matters to her because he coaxed it out of her. her reply was "You 
> think you're funny. You're just..."
> Ahhh she did understand his point, she just didn't agree with it.
> 
> Later she shows how she understands *why* James thinks he is funny.
> When Snape attacks James with the 'cutting curse' (probably not 
> quite so innocuous as it was made out to be, It was pointed at 
James 
> face and left a gash) When James retaliated against this not so 
> innocuous curse with a relatively harmless spell that mocked Snape, 
> Lily had to stifle a laugh. Not because she was a hard hearted 
> person, but because it *is* funny to see a violent and angry 
> engagement defused with a comical retaliation. 
> 
> Finally when Snape turned on her with the name-calling, what 
exactly 
> did she use to reply? *Snivellus* and much emphasis on it! Lily 
> understood perfectly well what *that* meant. It is *we* who do not.

Finwitch:

I agree with this - completely. Sirius explained the times (in front 
of the Black Family Tree), with no need to explain bullying Severus 
Snape. "come on, Harry, you must have seen enough of this house to 
know what kind of people my family were -- not Death Eaters, no, but 
they thought that Voldemort had the right idea...". Sirius disagreed 
with them - despite of this opinion giving him the same sort of 
treatment Harry got from the Dursleys.

Those days - it wasn't about DEs and good people. It was about blood 
(genes, more accurately) vs. choices. In addition, the extreme groups 
of these (or so it seemed): the Death Eaters - and Order of the 
Phoenix - were going into WAR.

In a way, a civil war was there, within the wizard world. Being 
underage - and still in school - none of them was a member of the 
extremists. But everyone was *expected* and assumed to be of either 
ideology. (In truth, I guess most weren't supporting either)

The bloodists use words like 'mudblood' and 'bloodtraitor' to 
descripe and insult the other side. I imagine we hear all other such 
words from the Portrait of Sirius' mother - and Kreacher.

I suppose that 'Snivellus' - was what the pro-choice people used of 
the bloodists, or at least it's the only specific insult I know of 
that they used. Even that - just that he exists - if you see what I 
mean...

Hmm-mm. You know - James DID battle the student-expert of the Dark 
Arts, with spells that were so - well, *harmless*. (and of course, 
that was part of the ideological war - at least to James). When James 
Potter (sometime after this scene, on a full moon) goes out and 
*saves* the life of Severus Snape - I think he considered that as the 
DEFEAT of Snape. And this time, his method was approved by Lily.

All in all, I'd say that James & Lily did discuss comparative morals 
on their first date... you know, James didn't see anything WRONG in 
what he was doing. I think James admired Lily for standing up for her 
ideas - or Snape for that matter, even if they disagreed on whether 
it was right to humiliate Snape in the first place.

Finwitch