Did JKR cheat with the prophecy?

[lupinlore]

No: HPFGUIDX 124871


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "lupinlore" <bob.oliver at c...> wrote:
> 
<SNIP>
> 
> 
> * Providing the prophecy is made from within the boundaries of time,
> which is not necessarily the case when dealing with divine prophecy
> but certainly is in the case of magical prophecies, and DEFINITELY is
> in the case of HP.  As Sybil Trelawney is not a divine being, she must
> stand within the flow of time to make her prophecy and therefore the
> negation of free will clicks into place.  As a divine being can, in
> theory, stand outside of time to utter a prophecy, there are still
> ways a true prophecy can be made and preserve free will, providing
> that said divine being DOES NOT utter the prophecy within time (for
> instance there are ways God could make a true prophecy to an angel
> concerning something occuring on Earth and still preserve free will).
>  However, if the divine being utters the prophecy WITHIN time, for
> instance through a prophet or a seer, all of the advantages fall away
> and free will is negated once again (so if God communicated the same
> prophecy through a prophet on Earth, the negation of free will takes
> hold).  
> 
> This also assumes there is only one timeline that only flows one way.
>  If there are multiple timelines that can flow both ways once again
> you can have true prophecies that allow for free will.  Under this
> scenario Voldy's choice to strike in the present CREATES the prophecy
> in the past (you seem to be hinting at this in the statement about
> Voldy's choice making the prophecy real).  However under this scenario
> no one can ever be sure of anything, as the timeline is constantly
> shifting (or we are shifting among timelines, it sort of amounts to
> the same thing) but we don't ever know it since our memories are
> constantly changing to accomodate whatever form the timeline takes (or 
> whatever timeline we land in, if you prefer to look at it that way). 
> Understandably, as this theory could never really be tested by logical
> analysis (only by empirical analysis of someone standing outside the
> timelines, a divine being or an angel), this isn't a very popular
> position among people who argue about such things.

Oh, by the way, logically speaking Time Turners can't negate any of
this.  (Believe it or not people were arguing about theoretical travel
in the time lines during the Middle Ages and the arguments got
extremely sophisticated during the Reformation).  It is clear from how
JKR has described it that people traveling by Time Turner take their
own personal pasts with them and their own personal time still flows
only in one direction as far as they can determine through their
experiences (as evidenced by they remember FIRST I did this THEN later
I took a TT back into time and saw it again.)  This ultimately means
they remain WITHIN time.  They don't step OUT of time, as a divine
being or angel in theory could (which means a divine being or angel
doesn't HAVE a memory in the sense we use the word as a divine being
would exist in an eternal present that encompasses everything we
experience as being divided into past, present, and future).  Thus the
same factors apply.  Any change in their personal timelines would
result in changes in their memories, yielding a situation untestable
and, indeed, unnoticeable from a mortal perspective.

In any case, JKR seems to use the "easy" form of literary time travel
which states that the universe is buffered against time paradoxes
(i.e. you can't change the past, at least in any way that would result
in a damage to the integrity of the timeline or in you percieving the
change).

Lupinlore