What is Snape knows (was: Further thoughts on who knows what ...)

[M.Clifford]

No: HPFGUIDX 125067



Siriusly Snapey Susan, enjoying knowing someone else thinks Snape 
may know, but kinda hoping
someone else will provide a really convincing argument that Snape 
doesn't know. You know? :-)


Valky:
Sorry SSSusan but I don't think it can be argued that Snape doesn't 
know the prophecy at least in part.
Anyone who tries will be shot down in flames, methinks by most of 
the stuff, you yourself, have said.
For example:

SSSusan : *I* got the sense at the end of GoF, when DD sent Snape on 
his mysterious, presumably highly dangerous mission, that they had 
already discussed this in advance, because Snape understood the risk 
in what was being asked of him. 

Valky: 
Looking at the canon evidence:
>From The Order POV
Snape is an Occlumens - he is hiding something from Voldemort.
Dumbledore has planned a mission for Snape in which he poses as a 
faithful DE - Snape was doing this thing in OOtP
Dumbledore asks *Snape* to teach Harry Occlumency - Harry asks 
*Snape* what is in the Dept of Mysteries?
Harry was told to stay out of it, Sirius was told to stay out of it, 
everyone in the Order was staying out of it, and called the Prophecy 
a weapon, except *Snape*.

>From the DE POV
Lucius was leading the group going after the prophecy - Lucius and 
Severus are closer than Severus to other DE's
None of them or their allies could tell Voldemort the *rest* of the 
prophecy... Not even Kreacher.

And from everyones POV
Dumbledore has vanished from the face of the earth.

Somebody is helping the DE's towards the prophecy, evidence points 
to Snape. So he knows *of* it enough to be able to tempt Voldemort 
with it.  

Somebody knows the beginning of the prophecy, other than LV, and 
Snape must be using his Occlumency for something, hence Snape knows 
what LV knows, and therefore must have some knowledge *of* the 
prophecy contents. Occlumency would probably end up pretty useless 
if Voldemort knows more than Snape.

Imagine Snape saying "I've heard about a weapon in the Dept of 
Mysteries...."
Voldemort legilimens him and is blocked... "Well you know less about 
it than I do Severus... Forget You!"

But if Snape says "About the contents of that prophecy... "
Voldemort "Yes I am still pretty peeved about that Severus, somebody 
duped me."
Snape "Well no, there is more *to* the prophecy... "
Voldemort Legilimens Snape and sees Snape knows the beginning of the 
prophecy then he is blocked "Well then you might be useful to me yet 
Severus... tell me what you *do* know.."


SSSusan:
IF Snape knows the first part of the prophecy, he knows either Harry 
or Neville is the wizard who possesses the power to vanquish Voldy. 
If this is fact, would it explain Snape's harsh, crappy & 
*singularly* negative treatment of Harry & Neville? I think not.

Valky:
I think yes, but with a lot of speculative stuffing to hold it 
upright.

Just with what we've got the only way to explain Snape's nastiness 
is that he is nasty, but he seems to want Harry to fail, while he 
wants Neville to succeed, which I think directs towards speculation 
about Snapes view on blood status.


PotionCat:
But what about this? DD doesn't tell anyone because people have a 
tendency to either sit back and let the prophecy come true, or 
people try to interfere with it. So telling people like Molly or 
McGonagall might affect how they treat Harry or how they react to 
the threat of LV's return. DD may not want Harry venerated, but he 
doesn't want good people to do nothing while they wait for a 
promised outcome.

What if Snape knows part of the prophecy and thinks these are the 
two best chances of defeating LV...they should be doing better. That 
is, instead of thinking he needs to prepare them, he's frustrated 
that they don't already have the skills that he thinks they should 
have. After all, they're supposed to be special.

SSSusan:
 If you're right, what the hell would explain Snape's giving in to 
the irritation and frustration? If he's convinced Harry & Neville
are important *and* ANNOYED that they're not better prepared/more 
skillful, then why doesn't he figure out how to DO something about 
it instead of just going on being awful to them, ensuring they'll be 
suspicious & resentful of him?


Valky:
I agree with both of potioncat's statements, and one supports the 
other. Notice that Snape *does* appear to be interfering in the 
outcome of the prophecy. He *really* gets on Harry's back telling 
him he is *not* special, all the while telling Neville *he* is not 
living up to the standard he should be.. and Neville really *is* 
doing hopelessly.
Neville is his prophecy boy.


SSSusan:
If you're right that Snape knows they're special, then presumably DD 
knows Snape knows. Why wouldn't he & DD, then, discuss any concern 
or annoyance Snape has over their abilities or lack thereof?

Valky:
Oh I am sure they do, but when has DD ever let one of SS's plaints 
make his decisions for him. 
Most likely he "calmly" tells Severus over and over that they are 
exactly, both doing as they should be, and no interference is 
necessary.... hence Snape's extreme frustration.