Umbridge and Hermione was Marrieta and ...

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 120927


Pippin:
> > Would you agree that the centaurs had become 
> > an evil organization by embracing racism 

Eggplant: 
> The centaurs are not an organization they are a species, a 
species  as intelligent as humans with a long and illustrious 
history. To  label all of them as evil is racism of the worst sort.<

Pippin:
Indeed. I was referring to the specific herd in question, which 
had attempted to lynch one of its own members for the "crime" of 
co-operating with humans. That was a species-ist act committed 
as a matter of policy. The herd had become evil, yes, and 
Hermione should have thought twice about trying to get them to 
help her.

Pippin:
> > trip over a root and pretend to break my ankle 

Eggplant:
> How on Earth is that going to stop Umbridge from torturing 
Harry?

Pippin:
You misunderstood me, I think. The first part of Hermione's plan 
*was* brilliant: lead Umbridge away from her supporters and 
into an ambush. It was the nature of the ambush that needed a 
little more thought. I was describing different ways in which 
Umbridge could have been ambushed. That one is classic.  I 
didn't think I needed to go into detail. You know, Hermione grabs 
her ankle, screams in pain, says she can't go any further. 
Umbridge bends down to take a look and Harry hits her with a 
rock.

Pippin:
> > say that the weapon must have been moved to 
> > London and flee up the steps of Grimmauld Place 


Eggplant:
> Even if you could convince her to go as far as London (unlikely) 
 it's not clear how that would help, you say flee up the steps but 
 that's easier said than done, she has a wand (equivalent to a 
gun)  on you at all times. <


Perhaps you could get any member of the Order  who happened 
to be in Grimmauld Place at the time to come out and battle on 
your behalf, but then you'd be risking their life when  there was a 
much better way. And letting one of your worst enemies  find out 
the location of your super secret headquarters does not  sound 
like a very good idea to me. <


Pippin:
Once Harry and Hermione on on the steps, they're invisible, 
except to other members of the Order. All they had to do is calmly 
walk ahead of her onto the steps and they'd disappear instantly.  
Umbridge wouldn't be able to see them, she 
wouldn't be able to curse them,  she wouldn't know what had 
happened to them, and she wouldn't know she was on the 
doorstep of Order headquarters, either. I don't think Harry and 
Hermione *could* betray the location of the Order to her even 
accidentally -- that's what the Secret Keeper charm is for.

Pippin:
> > Grawp 

Eggplant:
> I am certain at the time Hermione thought Grawp was far more 
dangerous than the Centaurs, and she had a point, certainly the 
 Centaurs were terrified of Grawp.<

Pippin:
Only true because Hermione underestimated the danger of the 
centaurs.

Pippin:
> > asking Harry to call Fawkes 

Eggplant:
> If Harry has the ability to call Fawkes to him whenever he wants 
> that's news to me. By the way, how could she ask Harry 
anything  without Umbridge hearing her do so?<

Pippin: (quoting from memory) "You must have shown true 
loyalty to me. Only that could have called Fawkes to you." --CoS
Hermione could have said, "I hope our golden friend isn't there, 
he might cause trouble." Harry's quick on the uptake, he'd have 
figured it out.


Pippin: 
> >  the merpeople 

Eggplant: 
> Ok Professor Umbridge listen closely, this is what I want you to 
do,  swim out into the middle of the lake and then dive down to 
the very  bottom then

 No, that just isn't going to work<

Pippin:
Why not -- "He's hidden it at the bottom of the lake --we'll need a 
bubblehead charm, of course or gillyweed  to go get it-- I think 
Professor Snape has some."

Pippin:
> > Dobby 

Eggplant:
> And they communicate to Dobby that they need help by means 
of 

<

Pippin:
"Dobby knows where it is -- bring him here and he'll tell you."

Eggplant:
> If a corrupt, evil, black person was holding a gun to my head 
and  was about to pull the trigger and I could figure out a way to 
get a  KKK member (or anybody else) to stop them from doing it I 
would not  hesitate for one heartbeat to do so. Be honest, would 
you?
> 

Pippin:
If I had bought myself  half an hour to think of another plan, I 
would have tried to. Hermione's vindictiveness got in her 
way, IMO. She didn't just want to interfere with Umbridge, she 
wanted to punish her, so she didn't think she needed a better 
plan.

We won't know the full cost of Hermione's misjudgment until we 
find out what it cost Dumbledore to rescue Umbridge from the 
centaurs. Who knows what risks he took or what price he had to 
pay to do that?

Pippin