Salazar & Slytherin(was Re: Draco and Slytherin House (was: Harsh Morality)

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 121478


> Betsy:
 But Dumbledore, on the other hand, has a Slytherin (Head of House 
no less) as one of his chief assistants and he listed *positive* 
traits of Slytherins to Harry. 

Alla:

Well, it is true. Snape seems to be one of Dumbledore chief 
assistants, but can we be sure of his final loyalty? I  want the 
answer to be YES, but I sometimes have my doubts.

Another question. Could you please give me a quote where Dumbledore 
lists POSITIVE traits of Slytherins to Harry?

Because if we are talking about this one:

"Listen to me, Harry. You happen to have many qualities Salazar 
Slytherin prized in his hand-picked students. His own very rare 
gift, Parseltongue - resourcefulness - determination - a certain 
disregard for rules," he added, his mustache quivvering again. "Yet 
the Sorting Hat placed you in Gryffindor. You know why that was. 
Think". -p.333, Cos, paperback.

I frankly do NOT see any sign of Dumbledore praising those traits.
Salazar prized them, yes, Dumbledore - nope.




Nora:
The positive traits do not ameliorate the sine qua non.  That's why, 
on this very list, so many people felt gobsmacked by the SH song in 
OotP--they'd focused so strongly on the characteristics as defining 
Slytherin House and the search for a positive image thereof, and 
then find out that "no, it's blood, it is".<

Betsy:
The Sorting Hat giveth, and the Sorting Hat taketh away. :) I think 
that, for me, the fact that magical folk were being persecuted at 
the time of Hogwart's founding, the fact that Salazar was so open 
about wanting to teach only purebloods and none of his friends 
forswore him, the fact that the Sorting Hat says that the fight, 
when it came, took place between all four of the founders, and the 
fact that the remaining three founders didn't just do away with 
Slytherin House when Salazar left, means that there *must* be 
something good in Salazar's original vision for Slytherin, though it 
may have been twisted by Voldemort and the Malfoy and Black types 
that came before him.


Alla:

I may have felt that way before that Sorting hat Song - that 
Voldemort distorted the original vision of Slytherin House. Not 
anymore - I don't see "blood purity" as  good vision.
At best I am willing to assume that Salasar was sincere in his 
mistakes and was scared of muggleborns for some reason. Does it 
justify acceptance of "purebloods only"? Not to me, sorry.

Persecution of magical folks... Sure, "witches burnings". In real 
world, many innocents died because they were suspected of being 
witches, right?

But don't forget that in JKR world REAL witches were not afraid of 
those burnings and saved themselves, while who really suffered were 
muggle folks.

So, seems that Salasar was not really rational in his fears of 
persecution, IF he had such, which I don't remember in canon.

Again, if you are talking about other kind of persecution, could you 
please refer me to canon?

Thanks.

I am one of those who feels that House System will dissappear at the 
end thus achieving the Unity of Hogwarts.
It is either that or Slytherin giving away the doctrine which seems 
to be the heart of their House ideology, but then they are not going 
to be real Slytherins anymore, don't they?



Betsy:

So I also feel that that positive image must be found and seen and 
used by Harry (the whole "unity" thing) in order to defeat 
Voldemort.  I'm fairly sure that Harry is heading for a drastic sea-
change of his view of Snape.  For one because the bases for his 
anger is so illogical.  And that's a start, but I think there needs 
to be a  Slytherin student as well.


Alla:

Ooooo, I so should not go into Harry being illogical... So, just one 
sentence. I don't see five years of emotional abuse as illogical 
reason for being angry at somebody. But that is just me.


But I agree with you that we WILL get a good Slytherin students or 
couple of them.

My money is on Theodore Nott and/or Blaise Zabini.


 Just my opinion,

Alla