Salazar & Slytherin(was Re: Draco and Slytherin House (was: Harsh Morality)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 121492


>>Betsy:
>But Dumbledore, on the other hand, has a Slytherin (Head of House no 
less) as one of his chief assistants and he listed *positive* traits 
of Slytherins to Harry. 
 
>>Alla:
<snip>
>Could you please give me a quote where Dumbledore lists POSITIVE 
traits of Slytherins to Harry?
>Because if we are talking about this one:
>"Listen to me, Harry. You happen to have many qualities Salazar 
Slytherin prized in his hand-picked students. His own very rare gift, 
Parseltongue - resourcefulness - determination - a certain disregard 
for rules," he added, his mustache quivvering again. "Yet the Sorting 
Hat placed you in Gryffindor. You know why that was. Think". -p.333, 
Cos, paperback.
>I frankly do NOT see any sign of Dumbledore praising those traits.  
Salazar prized them, yes, Dumbledore - nope.<

Betsy:
Wah-huh?  You don't think telling someone they're resourceful and 
determined is positive?  If I run those words through my WordPerfect 
thesauras and fill in the antonyms provided it would have Dumbledore 
calling Harry inept and submissive.  Would that have been better?  If 
Harry had not been resourceful and determined, spoke Parseltongue and 
had a "certain disregard for rules," Ginny's corpse would still be 
rotting in the Chamber, Hogwarts would be closed, and Voldemort would 
be that much stonger.  Those traits (except for the Parseltongue) 
have brought Harry through just about every challenge he's faced.  
And Dumbledore has rewarded Harry and praised Harry and encouraged 
Harry the whole way through.  Dumbledore *loves* that Harry is 
resourceful and determined.  And he twinkles his eyes at the "certain 
disregard for rules."  Hell, Dumbledore showed a disregard for rules 
when he told Fudge he wouldn't actually go along quietly in OotP.

>>Alla:
<snip>
>Persecution of magical folks... Sure, "witches burnings". In real 
world, many innocents died because they were suspected of being 
witches, right?
>But don't forget that in JKR world REAL witches were not afraid of 
those burnings and saved themselves, while who really suffered were 
muggle folks.
>So, seems that Salasar was not really rational in his fears of 
persecution, IF he had such, which I don't remember in canon.
>Again, if you are talking about other kind of persecution, could you 
please refer me to canon? 
> Thanks.<

Betsy:
When Prof. Binns talks about the founding of Hogwarts he says, "[The 
Founders] built this castle together, far from prying Muggle eyes, 
for it was an age when magic was feared by common people, and witches 
and wizards suffered much persecution." (CoS Scholastic paperback, 
pg. 150)  Binns further says that Salazar, "disliked taking students 
of Muggle parentage, believing them to be untrustworthy," (ibid).

If the Founders (all four of them) were worried enough about 
persecution that they built Hogwarts in a remote location, it seems 
to me they had some basis on which to rest their fears.  Plus, an 
adult witch or wizard may have been able to thwart an angry Muggle 
mob bent on burning (or pressing, or stoning or drowning or countless 
other witch-killing ways) but I wonder how a child would have fared?  
One of the big tenets of the WW is secrecy.  Their whole lives 
revolve around keeping their existence from the Muggles.  I don't 
think it's a stretch to think there may have been a sufficently 
horrifying reason to detach themselves so competely from society.

>>Alla: 
>I am one of those who feels that House System will dissappear at the 
end thus achieving the Unity of Hogwarts.
>It is either that or Slytherin giving away the doctrine which seems 
to be the heart of their House ideology, but then they are not going 
to be real Slytherins anymore, don't they?<

Betsy:
I'm one of those who like the House tradition.  I'd be sad to see it 
go, if it does.  And I still think that if Tom Riddle, with his 
Muggle father, was able to get into Slytherin, and if Harry Potter, 
with his Muggleborn mother, was courted by Slytherin, then the 
pureblood ideology (at least as preached by the Blacks and the 
Malfoys) must not be as important to Slytherin as all that.

>>Betsy:
<snip - and a spelling correction *blush*>
>I'm fairly sure that Harry is heading for a drastic sea-change of 
his view of Snape.  For one because the basis for his anger is so 
illogical.  And that's a start, but I think there needs to be a  
Slytherin student as well.<

> Alla:
>Ooooo, I so should not go into Harry being illogical... So, just one 
sentence. I don't see five years of emotional abuse as illogical 
reason for being angry at somebody. But that is just me.<

Betsy:
But Harry's not angry about the "five years of emotional abuse."  
He's furious at Snape because Sirius is dead.  And Snape is no more 
culpable for Sirius' death than Harry, so his anger is not logical.  
It's a classic attempt to shift the blame.  And I think it's setting 
Harry up to finally see Snape for who he is.  [Obviously, I'm one who 
thinks Snape is a good guy. ;)]  

>>Alla:
>But I agree with you that we WILL get a good Slytherin students or 
couple of them.
>My money is on Theodore Nott and/or Blaise Zabini.<

Betsy:
Like I said, I'm not willing to put money on it, but I really, 
really, really hope it's Draco. :)  Ah well.  Time will tell.

Betsy