Suggestions please: Mysteries

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 121729


Carol earlier:
> ...edited...
> 
> > And for all we know, Winky in her mistaken kindness to poor young
Master let Barty Jr. practice magic under the cover of his
invisibility cloak. We know that he had periods when the Imperius
Curse was weak, and the Imperius Curse didn't prevent him from
maturing physically, so probably it didn't prevent the natural
maturation of his magical powers, either. 
> 
> Juli:
> 
> But I don't think Barty Jr did any magic while under
> the Imperius curse, here's the quote from GoF, Ch 35
> 
> "But Winky didn't know that I was growing stronger. I
> was starting to fight my father's Imperius Curse.
> There were times when I was almost myself again. There
> were brief periods when I seemed outside his control.
> It happened, there, in the Top Box. It was like waking
> from a deep sleep. I found myself out in public, in
> the
> middle of the match, and I saw, in front of me, a wand
> sticking out of a boys pocket. I had not been allowed
> a wand since before Azkaban. I stole it. Winky
> didn't know.
> 
> This means he didn't do any magic, at least any
> wand-magic, he could have done some wandless, but I
> doubt it. Barty must have learned the Dark Arts when
> he joined the DEs, afterwards he was sent to jail,
> then imperio'd by his father, then he went to Hogwarts
> as Moody so this doesn't leave much time to learn much
> magic.
> 
> Juli

Carol responds:
If you look back at the part of my argument that you snipped,

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/121641

you'll see that this is exactly what I was saying. Barty Jr. must have
learned the Unforgiveable Curses as a DE--witness his Crucioing the
Longbottoms with the Lestranges--and would have learned the Imperio he
used on Krum and the AK he used on his father during his DE days as
well. I wasn't saying that he *learned* any new curses while he was
under Winky's care, only that his physical strength and probably his
magical strength had time to mature despite his bing under the
Imperius curse. You're right, though, that he didn't have a wand so he
couldn't have practiced the curses even when the Imperius Curse was at
his weakest. It must have been his memory, his intelligence, and the
strength of his will--his devotion to Voldemort and his resentment of
the Death Eaters that walked free--that enabled him to make his
presence known to Voldemort through the Morsmordre and work with him
and Wormtail to subdue the real Moody. By that time, Barty Jr. had his
full strength back and was quite able to use the curses he'd learned
as a DE as well as the potions (Polyjuice) and Transfiguration (Draco
into ferret) that he'd presumably learned at Hogwarts.

All of which was stated in the snipped portion of my original post.
The portion you quoted was just a small concession to the previous
poster, not my main point, which was the same as yours--he learned the
Unforgiveables as a DE. (Good canon, though. It destroys the Winky
subpoint, which is unneeded anyway with the strong will and high
intelligence arguments explaining why he didn't forget what he had
learned earlier after thirteen years of being under the Imperius Curse.)

Carol