Satellite!Harry

[snow15145]

No: HPFGUIDX 121820



> Carol responds:
> I guess my explanation wasn't clear. I think that the powers reside 
in
> Voldemort's spirit but he's unable to use them when he doesn't have 
a
> body because he can't speak or use a wand. (He can still possess 
other
> beings because this power doesn't require a body.) When he 
possesses a
> person he can use his powers through that person-- possessed!
Quirrell
> is presumably stronger than Quirrell in his normal state. When
> Voldemort has a body, even a baby's body, he can use the powers 
still
> within him that require the use of a voice or a wand. I don't think
> Parseltongue "permanently resides" in Harry. I think that the two 
now
> *share* that power, and probably other powers that haven't been
> identified yet, for example Legilimency. Voldemort "marked [Harry] 
as
> his equal" by giving him access to some of his own powers. That
> doesn't mean that Voldemort himself permanently lost them. He simply
> *couldn't use them* because he had no body.
> 
> I do agree that Harry has become more sensitive to the pain in his
> scar, or rather, the pain is more intense and he's more sensitive to
> Voldemort's moods (pretty much a given in OoP) but that can easily 
be
> explained by the increase in Voldemort's power now that he has a 
body
> of his own. And that strength apparently makes Harry "alive" to
> Voldemort's anger, which he sometimes feels as his own, and which 
may
> have been acquired along with the powers as part of the legacy of
> Godric's Hollow. Voldemort certainly did not lose his anger and give
> it to Harry; IMO, he kept it, along with the Parseltongue and the
> Legilimency and the ability to use an Unforgiveable Curse, but could
> not use it or manifest it in any way until he had a body. The 
stronger
> the body, the stronger his own powers and the stronger the 
connection
> with Harry.
> 
> Snow wrote previously:
> > The worst properties of the powers that Harry has unknowingly 
> > acquired from Voldemort is exactly what makes Harry's statement 
at 
> > the end of OOP so utterly ironic:
> > 
> > "But I don't!" said Harry in a strangled voice. "I haven't any
> powers he hasn't got. I couldn't fight the way he did tonight, I 
can't
> possess people—or kill them—"
> > 
> > Harry has never acquired the power to possess people; this 
statement
> came from Voldy himself; so Harry defiantly is correct that he does 
> not have the power to possess people.  <snip>
> > Why can Harry not use an unforgivable curse
because,like 
Dumbledore,
> he is too noble to use them or to understand that he has the power 
to
> use them via the Voldemort legacy unknowingly bestowed on him.
> 
> Carol responds:
> I certainly agree that the statement is ironic, one more example of
> Harry not knowing the full truth of his situation. He *has* acquired
> powers from Voldemort despite his denial of the situation; we just
> don't know which ones. (And his acquisition of those powers in no 
way
> implies that Voldemort doesn't also have them.) 
> 
> We can't really say that the power to possess people is definitely 
not
> one of the powers that was transferred to Harry at GH. I think 
you're
> assuming that because it was the one power Voldemort still had while
> he was without a body. But he regained the others later, or rather 
the
> ability to use them, so he never really lost them, either. We don't
> *know* that Harry doesn't have that power. He certainly thought he 
did
> when he dreamed that he, as the snake, was biting Mr. Weasley. I'll
> reserve judgment on that one, though I certainly hope he doesn't 
have,
> or use, that power. It's hard to see how it could be used for good
> except against Voldemort himself.
> 
> However, I don't think the ability to use an Unforgiveable Curse was
> transferred to Harry. I think that's something that the individual
> wizard has to acquire through a desire to do harm or violate the 
mind
> or body of another human being. Barty Jr. acquired it. So did
> Bellatrix and most of the other DEs. None of them received powers 
from
> Voldemort at Godric's Hollow or anywhere else. They just used their
> own power and their own evil will to perform spells that Harry is 
not
> yet powerful and certainly not evil enough to perform. (If he ever
> succeeds in performing one, the WW is in trouble because its savior 
is
> heading down Tom Riddle's path.)
> 
> I think that the powers Harry acquired are probably those peculiar 
to
> Voldemort, not shared by most other wizards (Parseltongue,
> Legilimency, and possibly possession among them). Most other wizard
> powers he would already have inherited from his parents--the ability
> to fly (and play Quidditch) being the most obvious example.
> 
> I'm not by any means saying that I'm right, only that there are 
other
> ways to look at the situation than the one you're proposing. And we
> don't disagree on all points, only on the idea that Voldemort 
actually
> *lost* all but one of his powers and now has to channel them back
> through Harry's scar. I agree that Harry has (shares) *some* of
> Voldemort's powers and that his denial that he shares any powers 
with
> Voldemort is ironic. But I don't think that the powers "reside" in
> Harry and that Voldemort has to get them back. They will be 
*equals*,
> per the Prophecy, when they meet for that final battle. IOW, Harry
> will have the same powers as Voldemort, some acquired at GH and some
> native to him at his birth.

Snow continuing to make her point a bit more clear:

You make a very good argument for your point of view, Carol. I 
understand the way in which you are looking at the transference of 
power(s) from Voldy to Harry. To use a computer as an analogy to some 
up what I believe you are saying, it would be like transferring a 
file from your pc to disk. Although you transferred the information 
to disk, it also remains on the pc. This is what I assumed to be 
correct also until I connected the fact that every time Voldemort 
uses any of his powers (other than the one remaining power he speaks 
of in GOF) Harry either views Voldemort and/or experiences pain in 
his scar. Voldemort did not use `his' powers that we are aware of 
until he was in the room with Frank Bryce, which is the first 
connection Harry has alerted us to where he feels a burning in his 
scar and also has the capacity to view a real time occurrence. You 
could argue that Voldemort used his powers to aid Quirrell in his 
attempts to steal the stone but Voldemort could also have been using 
the powers that Quirrell has with Voldemort's own understanding of 
magical use. Bertha is another point that could be argued but we have 
not actually been told whether Voldemort used the wand himself on 
Bertha or instructed Pettigrew to do it for him. Here's a question 
for you: if Pettigrew had the dark mark on his arm when he first met 
back up with Voldemort in Albania, why didn't Voldemort just touch 
the mark and have all his death eaters at his disposal; unless of 
course he didn't have the babymort body yet, in which case he 
couldn't have performed the spells on Bertha either because he was 
ill-equipped to hold a wand and Voldy therefore would not have 
accessed any powers at this time to alert Harry's sensitive scar. 

Harry accounts for each instance that we are aware of babymort using 
any of his powers. The first time was in the old Riddle manor when 
Voldemort killed Frank Bryce—we know that Voldemort actually killed 
Frank himself. The next time was when Harry viewed Wormtail being 
reprimanded by Voldemort for the escape of Crouch Sr. Harry tells 
Dumbledore about the dream he had and his scar hurting in the 
Pencieve chapter of GOF. Dumbledore asks Harry at this time if his 
scar had hurt at any other time this year other than the time it woke 
him up in the summer and Harry said "no". Dumbledore also asks Harry 
if he saw Voldemort and Harry said no, just the back of his chair but 
then comes to the conclusion he must have had a body to be able to 
use a wand. The whole point is Harry did not feel immense pain in his 
scar until babymort actually used magic of some kind himself. 
Vapormort had transformed to a babymort condition at some time before 
Harry had actually witnessed him at the Riddle manor so it wasn't 
just the fact that Voldemort had returned to a physical state that 
caused Harry to view Voldemort. It was when Voldemort actually used 
the AK on Frank Bryce that Harry's scar responded. Harry's 
recollection of the dream of this event only had to deal with the 
actual killing of Frank Bryce, which required Voldemort accessing his 
power. Harry had not viewed the entire occurrence that we had during 
this episode only the part where Voldemort used magical power. 

After Voldemort is reincarnated using Harry's blood the situation 
becomes much more intense. Harry's scar hurts quite a bit more often 
and Harry views more situations with Voldemort. Here is the real 
clincher to me though, that made me think that Voldemort is only 
accessing his powers through Harry, Voldemort possessing Nagini. The 
one power that Harry had not been made custodian over (possession) is 
the very instance where Voldemort becomes aware of Harry's presence. 
It was only when Harry viewed Voldemort through the one power that 
was left with Voldemort after Godric's Hollow that he became aware of 
Harry's presence, up until this point Voldemort was simply unaware. 
It would make sense, using my theory that Voldemort is only accessing 
his old abilities through Harry making his scar hurt with each 
occurrence, for Voldemort to recognize Harry's presence during the 
possession because Harry is now on Voldy's turf. Harry is actually 
accessing Voldemort's power of possession and so the reverse happens; 
Voldemort sees Harry for once. Every other time it is Harry being 
able to view Voldemort. 

As far as the prophecy is concerned where it says that Voldemort 
marks Harry as his equal, it is only true in one aspect
Harry and 
Voldemort are equal only in the abilities that they share. But as I 
pointed out previously Harry has one power that Voldemort knows not, 
therefore when they meet at the end, Harry is one up on Voldemort 
because Harry's one power is something Voldemort can't or won't 
access.

I could defiantly be wrong about this theory, Carol, but I think for 
now I'm going to stick by it even if it is all by myself. It isn't 
the first time I've felt like a solitary theory hugger. I've felt 
like I was the only one who saw Trelawney as an actual seer for—a 
long, long time, although I'm starting to see a few more people 
lately board at least the walkway to that particular boat. 

Thanks for listening to my ravings, Carol, and participating. This 
forum would be absolutely worthless without a skillful and respectful 
adversary. 

Snow