All about Lupin (and a little about Snape)

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 121885



> Renee: 
. The ESE!Lupin theory is clearly answering the whodunit kind 
> of question by creating a supervillain who 
>  
> - was behind the Shrieking Shack incident with Snape
> - joined the Death Eaters, betraying his greatest benefactor, 
> Dumbledore
> - betrayed his friends the Potters to Voldemort, misleading 
their 
> Secret Keeper 
> - killed a dozen Muggles
> - framed his friend Sirius
> - sent the Lestranges to torture the Longbottoms 
> - destroyed a couple of innocent Boggarts, not to mention the 
> vanished Grindylow
> - framed and was ready to kill his friend Peter 
> - killed Bertha Jorkins, probably as a werewolf during the full 
moon
> - killed Cedric Diggory under his codename Wormtail
> - bit the werewolf at the Dai Llewellyn ward of St. Mungo's 
> - killed his friend Sirius in the MoM

Pippin:
My, my, you *have* been paying attention. I'm flattered!

Renee:
<snip>
> 
> Truly a villain of Luciferan proportions. Come to think of it, they 
> share the first syllable of their names! And Lucifer started out 
> like an angel of light, if I recall correctly, which would explain 
> Lupin's first appearance as a lightbearer! Wow. 
> 
> But this Lupin far outshines Voldemort as the bad guy, and if 
he  really exists, he'll probably overshadow Harry Potter, too, at 
the  end - <

Pippin: 
thus the favorite character sobriquet

Renee:
in whodunits, villains of this stature do have the tendency to  
occupy the centre of the stage at the end. So what it boils down 
to,  I guess, is that I'm simply refusing to believe in the HP series 
as a whodunit with such a demasque at the end. I'm afraid no 
amount of  theorising will bridge the gap between my HP series 
and yours.    


Pippin:
I dunno -- LOTR is high fantasy. But consider Saruman. He's 
introduced as  the Head of the Order, the White Wizard who 
drove the Enemy out of Mirkwood. A light bringer, and one who 
drove away an evil entity, eh? Even though he's already 
supposed to be succumbing to evil at this point and there's a 
hint or two that Gandalf would be wise to trust him less than he 
does.

 But even though he doublecrosses Gandalf and  Theoden, is 
responsible for the deaths of Boromir and slew of lesser 
characters, and dies in the last ditch (pace Peter Jackson),  he 
doesn't for a moment threaten Sauron's place as the arch-villain. 
It's Sauron who corrupted him and inspires his every move, even 
when Saruman thinks he's acting for himself, and Sauron who 
preoccupies the heroes.

Saruman  could easily overshadow the Hobbits if Tolkien let him, 
but he doesn't. By the time "Sharkey" is unmasked, in a tiny but 
nonetheless distinguishable mystery plot,  they have grown and 
he has dwindled, so much that he's undone by his whining, 
miserable servant, a fellow by the name of Wormtongue. 
Hmmm. 

Pippin previously:
> > It would be a psychological disaster for Lupin to believe this 
about himself; that his guilty deeds make him not a human who  
can repent and be released from punishment but a monster who 
must be destroyed.<<
> 
> Renee:
 It would, if he did believe it. But I see no indication that he 
does; 
I rather see him confess his wrongdoings and shortcomings on  
several occasions. 

Pippin:
Only when speaking to Sirius and the trio, never to anyone who 
has the power to punish him. 

Renee:
 Also, there's nothing new in the message that a dehumanising 
treatment often results in inhuman behaviour. What makes you 
think JKR isn't writing the opposite: an example of someone who 
is eventually able to rise above  this kind of treatment?

Pippin:
Of course she is, that's why the books are called Harry Potter 
and...<g>  As Harry is the hero, it might  be more fitting if he 
helped someone else rise above, Snape maybe, rather than 
being helped by Lupin. Lupin's path, detachment, does not 
seem to be Harry's. 
 
> Pippin:
> > You asked about Snape: IMO, Dumbledore's pardon is 
implicit in  the words "He is now no more a Death Eater than I 
am."<<

> Renee:
> That statement still doesn't tell me if Snape has asked for 
pardon.  I consider Dumbledore perfectly capable of accepting a 
Snape who  returns to him saying no more than `I changed my 
mind', as long as  he's sure Snape *has* changed his mind, and 
knows he had a very good  reason to do so. Maybe it has nothing 
to do with contrition.


Pippin:
Would Dumbledore trust someone who had served the Dark 
Side and wasn't contrite? 

Pippin