In Defense of Snape (Against Snape in JKR's words)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 122649


>>Betsy wrote:
>But if Snape is not redeemed, then he is still a Death Eater. He is 
ESE!Snape, and his constant saving of Harry's life is part of some 
evil complex plot of... evil complexity?
>No, Snape is definitely redeemed.  He's just not sweet and fuzzy.  I 
don't think he'll ever be sweet and fuzzy (thank goodness).  I do 
hope there is development of his and Harry's relationship.  There is 
so much similarity between those two that it'd be a shame if they 
didn't finally see each others good sides.< 
 
>>Alla countered:
>NO, Betsy. That is the fundamental difference between how you and me 
see the character of Snape. To me not a DE anymore does not 
equal "being redeemed".
<snip> 
>Snape as sadist, who enjoys the sufferings of Harry and Neville 
needs redemption, IMO. <snip>
 
>>Carol responds:
>Possibly you two are using the word "redeem" in different but 
equally valid senses. Betsy seems to be using it to mean reform, and 
I would agree that Snape, for all his numerous faults, is "redeemed" 
in that sense, a reformed Death Eater who has no intention of going 
back to Voldemort and is actively fighting against him. But I think 
Alla is using it in the sense of atone or expiate, IOW not just 
repenting and opposing Voldemort but somehow extinguishing his guilt, 
paying for his sins in some painful way, in which case I can see why 
she doesn't think he is yet redeemed. Am I right, or close to right? 
If not, can you both clarify your concept of redemption?
>I'm not quite sure how Snape could redeem himself in that second 
sense except by dying to save Harry or some similar self-sacrifice, a 
la Boromir. Anyone have any Snape redemption theories that don't 
involve his death? Would saving Harry from deadly peril without dying 
in the process count? (*I* think it would, but I also confess that 
that's what I hope will happen.)<
 
>>Alla:
>Hmmmm, not exactly Carol. My concept of "redemption" includes 
both "to reform" AND " to atone".
>Let's forget for a second that as of today, which can totally change 
tomorrow and back again, I am having my doubts as to whether Snape is 
truly REFORMED DE.
>Let's pretend that he is truly loyal to the Dumbledore and 
accordingly to the Light.
>Even if I will be sure that he is truly loyal to the Light, I will 
never believe that he is completely reformed yet, because I think he 
still has DE mentality ( enjoying to see another human being in pain 
and enjoying causing such pain)
>True, IF Snape is truly loyal to the Light he does not want to kill 
anymore, but I believe that he still likes to hurt other people and 
his students make for nice subjects for his exercise.
>Accordingly, I think that Snape still needs to undergo reformation 
and well, atonement will be nice too.< 

Betsy:
Excellent question Carol!  I'm leaving Alla's answer in because I'm 
coming to this a little late in the game and I think the difference 
between our two views may help illuminate some of the fundimental 
differences between those who like Snape and those who do not.

First off, you're right, Carol, "redemption" and "reformation" are 
fairly interchangable for me.  Though I also think that a complete 
redemption includes definitive action to demonstrate the change of 
thought.  I don't know that I'd catagorize that action as "atonement" 
necessarily.  Maybe more a sense of putting your money where your 
mouth is?   

I think that Snape, for some unknown reason, had a moral epiphany (to 
borrow a phrase used earlier in this thread) and realized that the 
Death Eater philosophy was wrong.  Putting action to thought, he went 
to Dumbledore and effectively changed sides.  He became Dumbledore's 
spy.  A very important point to me is that this happened *before* 
Voldemort's downfall at GH (and I know this is a contested point - 
but it's how I read canon).  This meant that he changed sides when 
the Death Eaters were at their most powerful and joined what appeared 
to be the loosing side.  This was Snape's redemption, or his 
reformation.  In my opinion, another act of "redemption" would be 
redundent.

However, I do not think that the act of redemption, in and of itself, 
creates a perfect person.  Snape still has his issues and the bulk of 
them (that we the readers have seen anyway) revolve around his 
interactions with the Mauraders.  That he was humiliated and ganged 
up on by this group of boys (Sirius and James in particular) has been 
shown to us within canon.  That he was no easy meat has also been 
shown (the slash at James' face suggests that Snape rarely went down 
easily and most probably sought revenge whenever possible), but the 
fact remains that what was done to him still haunts him to this day.  
We have *tons* of canon for that.

Snape definitely needs to get beyond his hate and rage over what he 
suffered while a student if he and Harry will ever work together.  
But I don't think Snape needs to be redeemed and I don't think he 
needs to atone.  I think what Snape most needs to learn is how to 
forgive (which, granted, could be seen as a form of redemption).

At this point in the story I think Snape is no more a Death Eater 
than McGonagall.  He does have personal issues with Harry and, when 
Harry behaves in particularly James-like ways those issues are 
exasperated.  But there hasn't been any behavior on Snape's part that 
I think demands reformation or redemption.  

I *do* think Harry's *view* of Snape needs to be redeemed and I'm 
really hoping the next book will start us down that path.  As I've 
said previously, Harry's anger at Snape at the end of OotP strikes me 
as illogical (Snape did not cause Sirius' death), and I'm hopeful 
that it forshadows a drastic turnaround in Harry's attitude towards 
Snape.  Snape, I think, may have already started to reassess his view 
of Harry based on what he saw in the pensieve (though I admit, I'm 
reaching a bit on that hope - the mildness of his final interaction 
with Harry is one bases for it), so I think things may be ripe for 
change.  Of course, how that will affect Snape's role as Order spy, I 
can only guess.

Betsy, who loves the idea of Snape and Sirius being half-brothers by 
the way, though is not holding her breath on that one.