Favorite Snape Scenes - He's such a lovely professor, no really.

[Renee]

No: HPFGUIDX 122778


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "pippin_999" <foxmoth at q...> 
wrote:
> 
> 
> > <snip>
> > Renee:
 What if DD, 
> knowing  Snape was a Death Eater, hadn't listened when Snape 
> showed up but  immediately handed him over to the 
> authorities?<
> 
> Pippin:
> I didn't notice Dumbledore reading Fake!Moody his rights before 
> stunning him and dosing him with veritaserum. Snape isn't 
> nearly as powerful as Dumbledore, he doesn't have backup, he 
> doesn't have a bottle of veritaserum handy and he's 
> outnumbered in a  hostage situation. 

Renee:
Now the issue is getting muddled, I think. What triggered this 
exchange was Alla's remark that Snape didn't treat Lupin the way DD 
treated him, which I then compared to the parable of the ungrateful 
servant. DD's later treatment of Fake!Moody doesn't change that (and 
it's debatable whether the situations are comparable, but that's 
irrelevant here). DD listened to Snape. Snape bound and gagged 
Lupin, insulted him and threatened to drag him from the Shrieking 
Shack.    


> > Renee:
> > Irrelevant, as Lupin is tied up and gagged and Sirius doesn't 
> have a  wand. Snape, who has a wand and freedom of speech 
> and movement, has  the upper hand. He could have listened. <
> 
> Pippin:
> Um, how could Snape listen to Lupin if Lupin was gagged? If 
> Snape ungags Lupin, he's in danger of being spellbound 
> himself. Sirius has just admitted to knowing an illegal wandless 
> spell, and has already taken three armed students hostage with 
> it. 

Renee: 
Apparently the snippage has created some confusing here: I wasn't 
suggesting that Snape listen to Lupin. I was comparing Lupin and 
Sirius who listened to Harry when he told them not to kill 
Pettigrew, to Snape who did *not* listen to Harry's arguments in 
favour of Sirius and Lupin. 

And if Sirius could have used his illegal wandless spell against 
Snape, then why does he blanch and start pleading when Snape 
threatens to call the Dementors, instead using it?       


Pippin: 
> We have no canon that Snape knows how to lift a confundus 
> charm.

Renee:
Well, if he can't, why does he apply for the job of DADA teacher?



> >    
> > Pippin   
> > > But though Snape threatened to MAKE Harry get out of the 
> way,  he ultimately did listen to him,  because he didn't give 
> Sirius to  the dementors when he had the chance.<<
> > 
> > Renee:
> > I bet he did that because he needed to prove HE was the one 
> who  caught Black.<
> 
> Pippin:
> Um, I'm confused. You're saying Snape sincerely meant to turn 
> Sirius and Lupin over to the dementors when he threatened to 
> do it in the Shack, but had second thoughts later and decided to 
> bring Sirius to the castle instead? May I borrow a leaf from 
Neri's 
> book and ask how we are to  know?

Renee:
Ah, but when has not knowing something stopped us from making 
deductions? :)
By the time Snape finds Sirius, Harry and Hermione unconscious, the 
situation has changed. Snape has a better opportunity to think now. 
What will happen if he calls the Dementors (provided he could have 
done so; I've got no idea where they went and I don't know how long 
the effects of a Patronus lasts)? Will they only Kiss Sirius and 
leave Harry and Hermione alone? They *have* shown an unhealthy 
interest in Harry before. Can Snape prevent them from sucking out 
the soul of the boy he's trying to protect? And even if he can 
protect Harry, there are no witnesses if the Dementors Kiss Sirius 
while the two students are out; how can he prove his own role? 
Better take everyone to the castle. To me, this seems a likely 
scenario   
 
> Pippin:
> Again, I'm not sure how this relates to Snape's earlier threat to 
> turn Sirius and Lupin over to the dementors. Was he making an 
> empty threat before, or not?

Renee:
I think he meant it initially, but changed his mind because the 
situation had changed. 

Pippin: 
> This is something I 
> don't really understand about the "Snape isn't really on the side 
> of good, he's out for himself" theories.  Just what is Snape 
> supposed to be out for? He's a clever wizard who knows a potion 
> that feigns death -- he wouldn't have to join DD just to get shut 
of 
> Voldie. If Snape doesn't care whether the good guys win, what is 
> he after?
> 
Renee:
Personal glory, perhaps? Just like the world isn't divided into good 
people and Death Eaters, there are more motives than wanting the 
good guys to win or wanting them to loose. 
But I don't know if Snape is or isn't really on the side of good. To 
my best knowledge, I didn't doubt his loyalties in this exchange, 
just his behaviour. And most of the time, I prefer him to end up 
redeemed, either dead or alive.