[HPforGrownups] HELP! was Re: Paradox of Time Travel in PoA

[heather the buzzard]

No: HPFGUIDX 132035

Karen Barker wrote:

>My head hurts.
>  
>
heather: 

I sympathise!  :)

Karen:

>What I don't understand is how can TT-H have the 
>memory of a patronus having been cast to save H/Hr & Sirius from the 
>dementor attack that hasn't already happened yet in the linear time 
>that they are both currently travelling through.  To say nothing of 
>the fact that TT-h/TT-Hr are constantly referring to "Now is where 
>Snape appears, now is where Peter escapes (shall I jump in and grab 
>him, no you can't alter anything) etc.  TT-H/TT-Hr both have 
>memories of the events as happened to H/Hr but these events were 
>surely only happening the first time at the same time as they were 
>being observed and anticipated.
>

heather:

I think I understand you.  This is along the lines of what I was 
wondering in another post about whether Hermione 'aged' a few extra days 
during that year because of her use of the time-turner.  In other words, 
when Hermione goes back to the 'second' class, is she an hour 'older' 
than her other self?  Or do her cells/body/etc co-exist at the same 
'age' as her other self?  In other words (again heh) is her physical 
body determined by her own travels in time form her perspective only, or 
is it rather connected into Time alone?

You're right, this is really hard to put into words lol...

Anyway, the question is does she move forward in her OWN timeframe, and 
her own timeframe moves 'backwards' so that it overlaps big-T-Time 
twice?  Or does she move backward within her OWN timeframe along with 
big-T-time.

If it were the latter... if she were 'reset' when she used the 
time-turner to take her second class, then there would need to be a 
point where her two selves re-merged.  Otherwise, she wouldn't remember 
both classes!  Ie -- she takes charms, then time-turns, she is now back 
to an hour ago and hasn't yet taken charms so she doesn't remember it, 
and goes and takes runes.  In the end, she only remembers runes.  Her 
self that took charms 'erased' itself after the class (even though 
everyone remembers seeing her there).

Having fun yet?

Anyway, this would render the whole point of using the time-turner null 
and void.  She MUST remember the events of her per-turning existence 
when she turns, or else she would not be using it.

Also, if she were 'resetting' her own time-frame everytime she used it, 
she would not have been so TIRED all year.  She was tired all year 
because she was living more hours in a day than other people were. 

Therefore, by the evidence Hermione presents that time-turning does NOT 
reset the memories of those who are being time-turned, it makes total 
sense that Harry remembers the Patronus, etc.

I think you're seeing it as a person being 'split' into 2 people 
co-existing at the same time.  Think of it perhaps, not as a split, but 
as a zig-zag.  Time only happens once, and the same person lives through 
the same moments in time twice, one after the other from the person's 
individual time-frame perspective.

Heh... this could even excuse Hermione's little white lie, "how could 
anyone possibly be in two places at once" (at least I know she says this 
in the movie, and I'm presuming there's at least something similar in 
the book... apologies if I'm suffering from movie contamination, even 
though I just finished reading that book a week ago lol).  The 
workaround it is, it's not the 'same' Hermione in 2 places at the same 
time.  It's 2 'different' Hermione's... one is an hour older than the 
other...  Heehee...

heather the buzzard