Paradox of Time Travel in PoA - A Good Nights Sleep

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 132045

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "delwynmarch" <delwynmarch at y...>
wrote:
> ...edited...
> davenclaw wrote:
> "People have been saying that there is one time with two Harrys.  
> But until the moment in time occurred when they used the 
> time-turner, there WAS NO TIME-TRAVELING HARRY in existence."

> Del replies:
> YES THERE WAS :-) There was ALWAYS a Time-Turning Harry because 
> Harry Time-Turned. 
> 
> The timeline was ALWAYS: a second set of Harry and Hermione appear 
> out of thin air at 6, they save the "original" Harry sometime later,
> and that original Harry decides to Time-Turn at 9. It IS that way.
> 
> ...edited...
> 
> Del

bboyminn:

While Davenclaw's position is valid, he is expressing legitimate
concerns about time travel in general, concerns that have been debated
by science's top theoretical minds, it doesn't really apply to this
case. As I said before JKR left clues telling us that TT!Harry was
always there.

To some extent Davenclaw is stuck because he is fixated on when Harry
and Hermione left the time line at say 10:00pm. But what he is
forgetting is that they arrived in the past at 6:00pm. Six pm occurs
before 10pm, so what happens at 10pm or 9:59pm of 10:01pm is
irrelevant. The critical factor is that TT!Harry arrived at 6:00pm
which means he was there to witness and take part in the events that
unfolded between 6pm and 10pm. What happens at 10pm only explains
Harry's presence at 6pm.

Start in the past, and let the clock tick forward. It's 5:59pm, normal
Harry and Hermione with Ron hide in the broom cupboard listening
intently. At 6:00pm TT!Harry and TT!Hemione arrive and normal Harry
and Hermione HEAR THEM out in the entrance hall as they are scrambling
into another closet to hide from themselves. At 6:01pm, normal Harry,
Ron, and Hermione leave their closet and exit the Entrance Hall;
TT!Harry and TT!Hemione HEAR THEM LEAVE. They heard each other, they
don't understand it at the time, but from both perspectives they were
aware of each other's presence IN TIME.

Regardless of what time Harry chose to time travel history tells us
that he arrive at 6:00pm on that night, and was there to witness and
participate in the events as they unfolded. He didn't change history,
he created it; he did not spawn a new alternate time line, he simply
lived the original time line as his alternate time traveling self.
Again, one time line and two Harrys.

That's not to say your position is not valid in a general time travel
discussion. For example, Hermione mentions that people have killed
their past and future selves now THAT creates a monumental time
paradox. That creates a situation in which another time line must be
spawned, either that or the universe just explodes from the breach of
continuity and we all cease to exist. New alternate time lines is a
valid theory of time travel, but because both Harrys and Hermiones are
unknowingly aware of their /other/ selves then they were always there
in the one time in which these events occurred.

I can't say that you are wrong, only that you will make yourself
miserable holding fast to the two time line position. Take my advise,
right or wrong, you'll sleep better at night if you see it my way.

Steve/bboyminn