Dumbledore, his death; Snape, his trust (replies to a million posts)

[Juli]

No: HPFGUIDX 133135

I've combined a lot of posts about DD and SS, sorry if
it's a bit long ;)

Karen Barker:
Did Snape save Harry or just obey Voldemort? Is Harry,
indeed not now without protection as he fears but
rather still being protected, as a direct result of
"his greatest protector"'s death, this time from
within LV's inner circle?

Juli now: I think Snape hates Harry enough to kill
him, but he also knows (as I'm sure DD's told him)
that Harry is theonly one who can save Harry. But DD
didn't actually died to protect Harry, he died to
protect Draco, so probably Draco's the one protected,
but I don't think so.

esmith222002:
Albus Dumbledore planned his own death. He understands
that Voldemort would never even consider that someone
as powerful as Dumbledore would sacrifice their life
as part of a master plan. But what is the master plan?

Juli: The master plan is to kill Voldemort, as simple
as that.

I genuinely believe that Snape trusts and loves
Dumbledore more than anyone else. I also believe that
he does not think Harry is capable of destroying
Voldemort. He is angry that Dumbledore is sacrificing
himself unnecessarily!

I partly agree with you when you say Snape loves DD,
but I disagree with you when Harry's not capable of
killing LV, Harry is more than able and willing to do
so.

saraquel_omphale
Do I believe that DD pleaded for his life? NO!!
Totally out of character. So that leaves 2 options:
1 He was pleading for Snape not to betray his trust
and stay on the good side or
2 He was pleading for Snape to do what he had said he
would do at this point in the master plan, which was
to AK DD

Juli: I have to go with option #2, but still, he's
kept Snape on the good side.

juli17:

Why am I 98.6% certain, you ask? The points:

1. DD belabored the point OVER and OVER again in HBP 
that he trusted Severus Snape. I can't see DD going
out having made such a monumental error in
judgment. I just can't.

Juli: agree 110%

2. If DD thinks or knows that sacrificing his life is
necessary to ensure Harry's success in destroying
Voldemort, then DD will do it. 

Juli: yes, it's all about the greater good.

4. DD would *never* plead for his life. Ever. He
doesn't fear death. I feel VERY strongly about this
one. His "Severus...please..." plea was an act, or
intended to prod Snape to carry out his promise--i.e.,
kill DD. 

Juli: He does not fear death, fot it is but the next
journey (or something like that PS)

8. Regarding Snape in particular, it's hard to believe
that that's it--that's all there is to Snape. He hid
at Hogwarts pretending to be loyal to DD until
Voldemort regained his power, the end. 

Juli: No way, Snape has tons of layers, we've only
seen a few.

Dysis:
So telepathically, DD asked Snape to kill him. And
with anger etched on his face  that he had to kill
the one man who truly trusted him and actually loved
him (remember, Snape lacked love when he was younger)
 and being bound by the Vow, he did as DD asked.

Juli: I like your idea, Snape hates himself for
killing DD, but he doesn't stop taking his orders
because he's dead, no he'll stay loyal all the way,
loyal until LV dies.

bbkkyy55
DD's DEATH - Yes he's really dead - I'm so sorry - but
it always was going to be Harry's battle and he's on
his own now and ready for the task, mentally at least.
I wish his skills were a little better.
He's always gotten through on luck. DD's sacrifice in
petrifying Harry and thereby not having time to
protect himself was wonderful.

Juli: So being alone gives him a better chance to
vanquish LV?

SNAPE's treachery - well, I always thought he was
rotten. He was just too mean and enjoyed it all so
much. But still it shocked me very much. I think he
will be almost a more formidable foe than LV.
Snape does have feelings of compassion. He did make
the unbreakable vow to help Malfoy. To me Snape is
really really scary

Juli: I disagree, he's scary, I'll give you that, but
I don'y believe he is rotten. 

templar1112002
And I say all this after having believed since PS/SS
that Snape was and will always be an evil guy...
In all honesty, if what I've just reasoned comes close
to HP7 canon, it'd give Snape's character many, many
layers of depth.

Juli: what did he do on PS to convice you he was evil,
as I remember all he did was save Harry's life.

Claire:
Snape's mastery of Occlumency is serving him and the
Order well, I believe and hope

Juli: Ditto (sorry for the one liner)

Alla:
I loved Dumbledore`s willingness to share everything
with Harry, I loved him not trying to protect Harry
anymore and I cried for him.As far as I am concerned,
Puppetmaster!Dumbledore is put to rest also.

Juli: I'm not so sure about Puppetmaster!DD put to
rest, I think he did all he did cause he knew it was
for the better good, it was all part of his plans.

I think Snape is "deeply horrible person' even if
Dumbledore begged him to kill. After all, Avada IS one
of the unforgivables and I think that unforgivables in
Potterverse are called so for a reason. That is why I
am also not so sure that Dumbledore would ask anyone
to kill for any reason.

Juli: That's what I've been thinking all along, why
ask him to AK him? I bet there are other killing
curses other than the AK.

Kimberly
I was so sure that Draco was going to be a turncoat
and come over to the other side but evidence to the
contrary was shown quite early. Narcissa seems quite
desperate in her attempt to save Draco which reminded
me of the love of Lily for Harry and her desperate
attempt to save him.

Juli: So you still have faith in Draco? so do I. he's
shown love (and a lot actually) for his mother and his
father, therefore he must not be evil, mean yes, but
evil, not.

templar1112002:
My theory also includes a possible Unbreakable Vow
performed between Snape and Dumbledore, in which DD
makes Snape vow to help Harry in his fight against
Voldie 

Juli: I like it, Snape has to help Harry, otherwise he
dies. I wonder which would he take, Helping James' son
or ending his own life... hmmm

Davenclaw:
Snape has been too sincerely horrible to Harry all
along for him to have any desire to help Harry destroy
Voldemort. I actually think Snape has been playing
both sides noncommitally, waiting until
the opportunity to jump to the "winning" side.

Juli: So he's loyal to both LV and DD? How could he do
that? they both want exactly the opposite, unless he's
clonned himself.

Kneazle:
Is it just me, or was it completely obvious that
Dumbledore planned his death for at least a year?

Juli: maybe not for a year, but at least a few months
(since they heard about the 7 horcruxes)

There were so many ways he could have saved himself
(where was Fawkes? Why freeze Harry when the only
threat was a conflicted Draco?)

Juli: You've asked the million dollar question. Who
knows!

Who could put up that barrier to the tower in Hogwarts
except the headmaster? He didn't want anyone
interfering.

Juli: There wasn't a barrier to the tower, the barrier
was at Hogwarts boundaries.

I also think DD would not have sold his life cheaply.
He sacrificed himself, I wonder what sort of ancient
magic he created?

Juli: Are you thinking a protection like Lily's? But
to whom? to Draco or to Harry?

Gail:
It is interesting to note that DD appeared after death
in a portrait in his office, sleeping during H's visit
to P.McG, However, SB has not appeared, that we know
of, in a talking portrait. Perhaps he is not dead,
having passed the curtain while still alive?

Juli: Sirius was NOT a headmaster, so why would he
appear at the headmaster's office?

houyhnhnm:
It was not that I didn't know DD was going to die.
Aside from the leaks, I knew that the old wise mentor
always has to die so that the young hero can go on
alone to fulfill his destiny 

Juli: SO DD is like Obi Wan Kenobi? At the end, the
heroe is all alone. Kind of sad, don't you think?

OK, enough replies for one day, but fingers are aching.

Juli
Aol: jlnbtr
Yahoo: jlnbtr
MSN: julibotero at msn.com


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