Women in HBP

[rachaelmcadams]

No: HPFGUIDX 133639

Sienna wrote:
> > The part where the author really lost me was when Ginny snaps at 
> > Hermione and tells her not to embarrass herself. For me it was 
too 
> > much about how an attractive girl (who fits into and understands 
a 
> > mans world - ie quidditch) is more desireable and worthy than an 
> > intelligent girl who lacks in social graces and physical beauty. 
<snip>

Rachael now:
I read that as nothing more than Ginny standing up for Harry when he 
has a crush on her, which is why it makes him so happy. I really 
didn't see it as having anything to do with "an attractive girl 
fitting into a man's world."


anthyroserain wrote:
> I thought it would have taken far more courage and been more 
> interesting on JKR's part if Fleur was the one whose looks were 
> destroyed by a werewolf attack, yet Bill still chose to stick with 
> her. After all, who thought Fleur was interested in Bill for his 
> looks?

Rachael now:
Actually, we're told right from GoF that Bill is a very attractive 
guy and that Fleur is checking him out (before the final task).  And 
I think it wouldn't have had quite the impact if it was Bill chose 
to stay with her because we clearly told that he is a stand-up guy 
and Fleur is the one that is questionable to the  reader.

 
anthyroserain wrote:
> On another, related topic: I'm quite used by now to JKR using 
> physical characteristics as a signal of inner characteristics, 
which 
> is something that has always disturbed me very much. Unattractive 
> (not just not pretty) people in HP almost invariably possess 
mainly 
> negative characteristics. (On the other hand, sometimes she does 
> include beautiful evil people, like Tom Riddle and Bellatrix.) Fat 
> people in HP are always greedy and self-indulgent-- this 
stereotype 
> has been going on unchanged since the first book. I hope this is 
> simply shorthand and lazy writing on JKR's part, not what she 
> actually believes. 

Rachael now:
But the viewpoint we get about people's looks are Harry's views.  
Looking at the characters objectively, there are several 
unattractive people on the good side and several attractive on the 
bad. 

Hermione is the one that gets my attention first. She is never 
described as being pretty, except in the Yule Ball scene.  If it 
wasn't for the fact that she is one of Harry's best friends, she 
could be described as that bushy-haired girl that kind of looks like 
a chipmunk. Also, Neville, McGonagall, Flitwick, and Moody 
definitely aren't described to be the most attractive people.

Malfoy and Pansy are 2 "bad" characters that are probably very 
attractive, but Harry sees them in a bad light, so they're not to us.

I could name a "fat" character who is definitely not seen as greedy 
and self-indulgent: Molly Weasley.  I love her, but we know she's 
not a skinny woman.  Also, Fred, George, and Charlie are all 
described as stocky.  Neville's another chubby boy.

The point is, people's personalities play a HUGE role in how we view 
them on every level, especially physically.  WHen you dislike 
someone, you often pick at their faults, and since the entire series 
is from Harry's viewpoint, if Harry doesn't like someone, he 
describes them in unattractive terms.


anthyroserain wrote:
 This is actually my biggest complaint about the series. I love the 
> Harry Potter books, and I love JKR's writing, and I am constantly 
> amazed with the books. It's just a niggling thing that has always 
> bothered me. And as far as representations of women go, up until 
> HBP, I thought JKR's depictions were quite progressive and 
> feminist.  

Rachael:
I continue to see them as progressive and feminist (and believe me, 
I'm a staunch feminist).  The only problem is that once you throw in 
love and relationships, many women feel like that shows a dependency 
on men, which is not the case.  The women in the book choose to be 
with the men they are with, so there's nothing anti-feminist about 
that.

Rachael