Feminism and love

[susanmcgee48176]

No: HPFGUIDX 133682

> 
> I shall expound on my thoughts.  I've noticed this thread began 
with a 
> discussion on how Ginny's reprimanding Hermione was an actual 
display 
> of conservative thought.  Now, I've never been in the burning bras 
> camp, but I am most decidely a feminist,as far as I was concerned, 
Ginny shooting Hermione down in 
> that moment was great, Hermione was being annoying.  Not because 
she's 
> overly intelligent, but because she was castrating Harry for doing 
> something, though not moral, at least unintentional.  Plus, it was 
> about Malfoy after he tried to hit Harry with the Cruciatus Curse.  
It 
> was stupid of Harry to try a hex he had no knowledge about, I 
totally 
> agree, but he already felt terrible about it, and Hermione was 
> displaying, in my opinion, a moment of insensitivety, which is 
common 
> for her when she feels she is absolutely in the right.  Hermione 
can be 
> extremely annoying, which has nothing to do with her being a girl, 
and 
> is something I don't like to admit, because I've been called a 
Hermione 
> numerous times by many of my own friends.
> 
> And I didn't see Ginny only described physically, and I did not 
> understand the argument that her looks are why Harry likes her.  
We've 
> seen Harry when he only likes a girl based on looks alone.  Cho 
Chang 
> rings a bell, and she made Harry rather unhappy.  Harry actually 
spends 
> time with Ginny, he talks to her, hangs out with her, spends time 
> around her with the Weasleys and the trio.  He is not attracted to 
her 
> only because of her looks, if that were the case, I think he would 
have 
> noticed her long before the Dean/Ginny moment.  And Fleur being the 
> beautiful fiance figure is irrelevant to me, as I gathered the end 
> scene with Bill occurred to assure Molly that Fleur does genuinely 
love 
> him, and that it isn't a shallow whimsy, which I think is what 
Molly 
> wanted to believe.  The Tonks argument seems silly to me, as Tonks 
is 
> probably the cliche feminist example: the girl competing with men 
in a 
> traditionally masculine vocation, and falling in love with the 
> troubled, albeit good, though weaker man.
> 
> I don't mean this diatribe as a pro-Harry/Ginny anything, more like 
a 
> pro-JKR invective.  I agree with Del, as far as I think Harry will 
need 
> more love in the next book, and his whole hero-complex of isolating 
> himself from those he loves can't possibly help him.  But even 
Harry 
> defends himself from Hermione's feminist posturing: when she 
accuses 
> him of thinking the HBP can't possibly be a girl, he becomes 
> understandably offended, and reminds her that he has been one of 
her 
> best friends over the last five years, loves her, and knows her, 
and by 
> knowing her how it isn't possible to think women are not just as 
> capable as men (I'm paraphrasing).  
> 
> I understand not liking the ships in HBP.  I understand being 
annoyed 
> with JKR's constant literary device of outward characteristics 
> reflecting the inward (though I have always taken this in stride - 
it's 
> a common enough device in much of young adult literature).  But 
> thinking JKR not a feminist?  I don't get that one.  And I'm 99% 
sure 
> she'd agree with me.
> 
> Adair


Well, I can't resist a discussion about feminist. But wait! (List-
elves are waiting to jump out of the email and banish me from the 
list) I will relate this to Canon.

First, if you get eight people in a room, all of whom define 
themselves as feminists, and there will be eight definitions of what 
a feminist is. I define myself as a feminist (and by the way, the 
picketers at the Miss America contest never burned their bras, that's 
a myth).  So when Adair says she's a femimist  " in the women-can-do-
anything-a-
> men-can-do-how-dare-we-be-stereotyped-into-certain-social-roles 
kind of  way." 

I'd say, well, I don't agree with social roles or any kind of roles 
based on gender. My beliefs as a feminist are that women have been 
oppressed, lied about, hurt, enslaved, and discriminated against for 
centuries. That should end, and all other forms of slavery and 
oppression -- such as racism, and homophobia -- should end, too.. I 
hope that this revolution would end the silly and antiquated idea 
that women should act or behave in certain ways because they are 
women, that they should dress in certain ways, or work only in 
certain jobs....AND that men should behave in these ways.

So, would JKR consider herself a feminist? It's my guess that she 
would, but that's up to her to say. It's obvious that she's a strong 
champion of the downtrodden.

It's ALSO obvious that she's a champion of LOVE --brotherly love, 
sisterly love, partner love, parent and child love, sweet romantic 
love, and I'll hazard a guess intensely erotic love, too (although 
there is no evidence in canon for that last guess). Now, that is NOT 
anti-feminist. It was Robin Morgan, noted feminist theorist, who said 
that "we're all looking for a great love." 

She is also quite old-fashioned, and I don't say that in any kind of 
bad sense, because I am, too. She likes young people to be courteous, 
she likes people to be kind..that kind of old fashioned...

Prior to the Order of the Phoenix, I had real problems with the way 
JKR portrayed women -- I felt almost all of the strong characters 
were male, and that the female characters were cast only by their 
relationship to men. I saw a lot of strong male/male bonding, but not 
a lot of strong female/female bonding.

Of course, Hermione is the exception, and remember, she's the 
character who JKR herself identifies with most strongly. I have 
noticed there's lots and lots of anti-Hermione sentiment on the web --
 people keep calling her bossy, and irritable, etc. I think this is 
backlash because Hermione has been the one character who was NOT 
portrayed just in relationship to a man (deputy, spouse, girlfriend, 
mother, crush). And please, before someone jumps on me, I myself am a 
mother. Being a mother is terrific. However, in the first few books, 
the ONLY role some of the women had was as a mother, and we saw NO 
MEN who were only spouse/father.

In the OoP, the girls and women flourish and change remarkably. 
Ginny, in particular, goes from speechless and helpless victim in 
need of rescue(CoS)to a strong quidditch player, great witch - 
(particularly as far as hexes goes), social and popular. She stops 
waiting around for Harry to notice her and starts some social 
relationships of her own. She has ideas - she reassures Harry about 
his fear of being possessed by Voldemort. Ginny states quite clearly 
that she doesn't need Ron's permission to get involved with Harry - 
or to kiss Dean in the corridor. She's funny (no, I told him you had 
a tattoo of the Hungarian Horntail -- much more macho).

 Hermione continues to grow -- has no one noticed that she made a 
major change in public opinion about Harry and Voldemort? This was a 
terrific contribution to the fight against Voldemort (not to mention 
her detection and imprisonment of Rita Skeeter). Minerva McGonagall 
charges out to rescue Hagrid and almost dies. Madame Maxime goes off 
to negotiate with the Giants. We meet Tonks -- who at that time was a 
single woman, and an auror. The book's most contemptible villain is 
the unforgettable Delores Umbrage.

So, are Harry and Ginny in love? (No, I don't think Ginny gave him a 
love potion -- aren't they supposed to act for 24 hours only? how 
would one explain the feelings that were creeping up on Harry before 
the Quidditch celebration..such as his jealousy of Dean?) I think 
it's quite possible. The early, limerance phase of falling in love 
looks quite a lot like infatuation (and feels like it too!) so it's 
hard to tell. 

They have become friends. Harry has learned to respect Ginny as a 
Quidditch player, a fighter (scene towards the end of OoP), and 
really likes her. She shares his values. She understands about 
fighting Voldemort. I don't think Harry will stick to his noble "I 
can't be involved with you anymore" stance...love will conquer.
Contrast this with his disastrous crush on Cho....

Susan McGee, Northern California

"Dumbledore would have been happier than anybody to think that there 
was a little more love in the world," said Professor McGonagall 
curtly...