Ginny, Snape and assorted desiderata ...

[Richard]

No: HPFGUIDX 133697

[/lurker]

There is no way I can keep up with all of the discussions about HBP, 
here, but I've tried to at least catch the main threads.  So, please 
pardon me if I repeat things that are established in the archive, as 
well as the fact that I haven't linked this to any particular thread 
due to the problem of finding all the ones that it might be related to.

So, starting with Ginny and Harry, I have no problem with this 
relationship at all.  I'd long thought that the only two girls who 
made sense as interests for Harry were Hermione and Ginny, and despite 
assertions from several that they did not see this coming, or that it 
was to peremptorily presented, I think the basis for it lies 
definitely as far back as CoS, and even SS/PS.  Still, there are some 
human psychological points that need to be raised, I think.

Various studies over the decades have shown that love gets a chance 
between two people when certain conditions are met.  Among these are 
continuing, regular, preferrably frequent, contact, plus shared 
interests, experience and values.  Think of intra-office romances, 
where you have people who work together, generally have similar 
interests (which is part of what got them into the same business after 
all), and frequently shared values, etc.  Ginny and Harry have had 
routine contact for years, now, primarily during the summers at the 
Weasley's (in terms of intensity of interaction), but also at 
Hogwart's, where they are in the same house, at the same table, have 
shared sibling/friends and pure-friends, have come to know each other 
well, have similar beliefs and values (which is part of what got them 
into the same house), shared experience (Voldy-mentia, might be a good 
term for possession by Tom-mort) and so on.

On a different tack, in classical thought, there are four requirements 
that must be present for love to be present: knowledge, concern, 
respect and a proactive sense of responsibility.  We know that Harry 
knows Ginny, and rather well.  We know that he has at times been 
actively concerned about her welfare.  We know also that he respects 
her, as she is both a valued friend and frequent ally in both major 
and minor battles, figurative and real.  We also know that he took a 
very proactive role in rescuing her from Tom in CoS, and that he also 
was concerned that she be in the DA, which was a proactive move to 
help ensure her safety through self-defense.  So, I don't think you 
can say that Harry CANNOT love Ginny, because the four basic 
requirements are demonstrably present.

So, we have the psychological foundation present to support a true 
love of Ginny by Harry, and I think we have as good or better 
arguments for Ginny being open to loving Harry, though Ginny's mind 
isn't as open to us through the narrative as is Harry's.  That means 
for me the question is not whether it is possible, but, "Why wouldn't 
he love her?"

As for Snape, I think his loving Lily is still on the table as a real 
possibility.  Why?  Slughorn has said repeatedly that Lily was very 
gifted at potions.  This opens at several possible arguments on the 
point, and her are a few of them.

First, since we "know" that Snape was very gifted in this field, it 
might be the case that he helped Lily, and that the dislike of her 
that he also been stated in canon came later due to her rejection of 
him in favor of James.  In this line, it could be argued that her 
disapproval of James' treatment of Snape in the pensieve scene was in 
part a certain loyalty to someone who had helped her, and not merely 
her sense of fairness.

Second, if both were gifted, the potions modifications in Snape's copy 
may have been the result of collaboration between Lily and Snape.  
Note that though Snape strongly suspected Harry had a "special" copy 
of the potions text, he only took verbal shots at Harry about Harry's 
use of SPELLS Snape invented.

Third, if it was Lily who was the real talent, and she helped Snape 
with potions, who was more into hexes, jinxes and such, and thus wrote 
these into his potions text when he should have been concentrating on 
potions, Snape would in effect owe much, including his years as 
potions master, to Lily, and perhaps also have loved her for it.

This is far from a complete exposition on the subject, and numerous 
angles and subvariations remain to be explored, but I await more 
revelations regarding the relationship between Snape and Lily in book 
7.

I don't see the complaints about Tonks and Remus at all.  I think what 
we are seeing is simply that the Potterverse is broader than canon.  
People continue to live lives, fall in love, fight, etc., outside of 
canon, and it is not necessary for canon to incorporate all of this 
into canon.  To me, this demonstrates a rather richer imagination on 
the part of JKR than many an author, and is to her credit, especially 
as she is often able to use "off canon" to build plot that is 
subsequently canonized.

I do not see Harry/Ginny necessarily being at an end until LV's 
death.  With the impending wedding, I think there is a chance for some 
privacy, and safety, for the two at the Weasley's.  Given that Mr. 
Weasley has already stated that "half" the family owes their lives to 
Harry, I don't see either parent objecting to some private time in the 
house for the two of them, nor do I see Ginny quietly accepting 
indefinite suspension when this opportunity will be so apparent.  I 
don't for a minute think that this will translate into wild passionate 
scenes, implicit or otherwise, only an opportunity for the two of them 
to be together, and alone, without the risks of an openly acknowledged 
relationship such as they were building at Hogwart's.  Public 
affection is, I think, now at an end ... at least until the end of LV.

I still think at least one Weasley will die, with Ron being the prime 
candidate, thanks to all the interesting "soothsaying" in prior 
canon.  Such would tend to make a H/G ship particularly seaworthy, I 
think.  However, I still have problems with a R/H ship.  As noted 
above, respect is an absolute requirement for love, and I don't see 
them respecting each other in the manner and degree that would support 
a solid, enduring love.  JKR may have things in store for us that will 
change things dramatically but I still think it would be a significant 
error in terms of believability if she were to leave us with a R/H 
LHEA without some significant changes in both.  The good news for R/H 
shippers is that war and combat can bring such changes.

Now, as I prepare to re-read HBP ... please don't flame me too bad!

Richard