No: HPFGUIDX 133810
--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <darkmatter30 at y...>
wrote:
> > I used to be a very active member of this Group a few years ago,
> and I
> > clearly remember many discussions about Hermione's romantic
> feelings
> > for Harry and her non-romantic feelings for Ron. IMO, these people
> > tended to be the ones who identified with Hermione and wanted her
> to
> > be with Harry because they preferred Harry (the hero, the
> celebrity of
> > the series) over Ron (the sidekick). And for these people, any
> pairing
> > contrary to what they want will be unsuitable. That's why I don't
> > bother with the "shippers"---they're too narrow-minded, which
makes
> > them overlook many of the blatantly obvious clues Rowling has been
> > dropping in the previous books.
>
> Richard:
> I think this is a pretty much anticipatible problem in such a long
> serious that gets spread over so many real-world years. People are
> left to speculate, and with so much material, personal views,
> desires, and such will tend to out-weigh the story as it is being
> told.
>
Not really. I'm a fan of the "Stephanie Plum" series by Janet
Evanovich too. Evanovich puts out a new Plum novel every one to two
years. Sure there are people who want her to choose one man over the
man, but they aren't nearly as "millitant" as the HP shippers. And
the Plum shippers are more than willing to admit "if I was Stephanie
I would choose Joe" or "if I hope Stephanie would pick Ranger because
I would!". HP shipper rarely do that. As I said they identify with
the HP characters to the point where they are adamant that Harry will
marry and have 7 children with Hermione, etc.
> Still, I wouldn't count the H/Hr ship as resting eternally at the
> bottom of the Sea of Love, either. What might happen if Ron and
> Ginny are both dead at the end of the tale is quite open to
> speculation, and, as I've said, there are logical reasons for
> thinking that the only two viable ships for Harry thus far are H/Hr
> and H/G. (Keep repeating, "Knowledge, concern, respect and
> responsibility!") When the basic requirements for love are
> fulfilled, the question ceases to be, "Why would he/she/they?" and
> becomes, "Why not?"
>
True, but there's a distinct possibility that Harry doesn't survive
Book 7 either. In that case, unless Harry steals Hermione away from
Ron, that ship might not sail.
> > >
> > > As for Snape, I think his loving Lily is still on the table as
a
> real
> > > possibility. Why? Slughorn has said repeatedly that Lily was
> very
> > > gifted at potions. This opens at several possible arguments on
> the
> > > point, and her are a few of them.
> > >
> > > First, since we "know" that Snape was very gifted in this
field,
> it
> > > might be the case that he helped Lily, and that the dislike of
> her
> > > that he also been stated in canon came later due to her
> rejection of
> > > him in favor of James. In this line, it could be argued that
> her
> > > disapproval of James' treatment of Snape in the pensieve scene
> was in
> > > part a certain loyalty to someone who had helped her, and not
> merely
> > > her sense of fairness.
> > >
> >
> > In OoP US hardcover page 649 Chapter: Snape's Worst Memory:
> >
> > "there you go, " he {James] said, as Snape struggled to his feet
> > again, "you're lucky Evans was here, Snivellus-"
> >
> > "I don't need help from filthy little Mudbloods like her!"
> >
> > I don't get the feeling that Snape had the hots for Lily with that
> > remark....
> >
> > BUT this does give an interesting look into Snape's psyche: he's a
> > half Muggle, yet he holds a Muggle born in contempt. So Snape is
> > projecting his perceived undesirable qualities onto Lily (and
other
> > Muggle borns).
>
> Richard:
> I see more than a little self-loathing in Snape, even though he is
> also a very proud person. (OK, "egotist" may be a better term.)
> And I don't think you can discount any possible attraction until we
> have JKR's final word precisely because if Lily WAS that good at
> potions she might STILL have Snape's respect, even as he is/was
> deeply ambivalent about it. Further, a comment made at a point
> where he might well be recognizing Lily's drift towards James, with
> the resulting resentment that would certainly attend in a person
> like Snape, shouldn't be seen as definitive with regard to all
> relations between the two for all time.
>
And egotists are a tad bit narcissicistic too. Those type of people
are too in love with themselves to bother with loving other people,
in my experience. After reading OoP, I liked Snape to those disturbed
teens who shoot up their schoolmates---while they want love and
respect, they don't get it, so their anger and resentment turns to
hate. Unlike Kebold and Harris in Columbine, Snape "got back" at the
popular kids after leaving school.
>
> > I don't buy that Snape co-wrote the notes in the Potions book nor
> that
> > he had help from anyone in his year. That detracts from Snape's
> > abilities as a potions master.
>
> Richard:
> I don't expect you to "buy" anything. Just keep in mind as you
read
> that there are lots of things yet to be revealed, and some surprise
> on this line shouldn't be unbelievably shocking. I'm sure that the
> notes regarding potions in the text were ENTIRELY in Snape's hand,
> but not sure that they were entirely from Snape's mind.
I don't think I expressed myself competently. I don't buy the theory
that Snape HAD to have help in order to write those shortcuts and
spells. In other words, I don't buy the supposition that Snape
couldn't possibly have written those shortcuts and spells because he
wasn't clever enough to do it by himself. I give Snape more credit
than that.
> We shall see (or not) as JKR completes her tale. In the mean time,
just
> consider the possibility that at least some of the ideas might have
> come from Lily, who Snape might well have regarded as gifted enough
> in potions to be tolerable ... until she fell for James.
>
As you said, we shall see. But I wouldn't bet a Chocolate Frog on
that or anything for that matter. *wink*
> > > I don't see the complaints about Tonks and Remus at all. I
> think what
> > > we are seeing is simply that the Potterverse is broader than
> canon.
> > > People continue to live lives, fall in love, fight, etc.,
> outside of
> > > canon, and it is not necessary for canon to incorporate all of
> this
> > > into canon. To me, this demonstrates a rather richer
> imagination on
> > > the part of JKR than many an author, and is to her credit,
> especially
> > > as she is often able to use "off canon" to build plot that is
> > > subsequently canonized.
> > >
> > I also think it would have detracted from the Harry plot if
Rowling
> > delved into the Tonks Remus relationship more. Let's face it,
> Harry is
> > in school. He has limited contact with Tonks and Remus during the
> > school year---why would we need to cut away to a dinner date with
> > Tonks and Remus? This is Harry Potter not "The O.C."
>
> Richard:
> Never having watched "The O.C.," I'm not sure what you are talking
> about. I only know enough about it to know that I would probably
> become physically ill if forced to watch it.
And that's all you have to know about "The O.C.", Richard, to be glad
Rowling didn't bring us along on a Remus-Tonks date. lol
Milz