What is the use of Ch2 "Spinners End"?/Occlumency and Pensieves

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 134414

Eggplant wrote: 
<snip> For 6 books we've seen Snape do extremely nasty things and for
6 books we've heard the hero of the books tell us over and over that
Snape is Evil, and in chapter 2 we even see Snape making unbreakable
vows and conspiring with Death Eaters, and yet JKR manipulates her
readers so skillfully that it's still a huge shock when we discover in
the end that Harry was absolutely correct and the reason he always
acted so unpleasantly is because Snape is indeed evil. Talk about
hiding in plain sight!
> Brilliant! 
> 
> By the way, now we know why Harry did so poorly in Snape's
Occlumency lessons in book 5 and why they weakened his defenses rather
than strengthen them. 


Carol responds:

According to JKR's combined Leaky/Mugglenet interview, it was Harry's
own emotions that made it difficult if not impossible for him to learn
Occlumency, in contrast to Draco (and presumably Snape), who can
separate emotions from logic and other strictly mental processes.

I know that this scene, and the death of Dumbledore, seems like a
triumph for the ESE!Snape theorists, but possibly you're
underestimating JKR's gifts as a storyteller. I really doubt that
she'd be that obvious, and we have more to learn about both Snape and
Dumbledore. (I, for one, would love to see the other two memories that
Snape removed from his head along with the scene of James and Sirius
tormenting Snape, which JKR implies in the same interview has not been
tampered with. At least we now know that a Pensieve does provide an
accurate and objective record of a memory. That is its value, as I've
always believed.)

I, for one, am still inclined to doubt that Harry's wisdom is equal to
Dumbledore's, nor do I think that Dumbledore gave us his real reason
for trusting Snape. I very much doubt that Dumbledore would be reduced
to begging Snape not to kill him, or that his Legilimency has been
completely blocked by Snape's Occlumency, however superb Snape's
skills may be in that department. Dumbledore was weakened by the
poison and Snape (apparently *only* Snape) could have saved him, but
Snape had no opportunity. He had to carry out the Unbreakable Vow.

I wish I knew what was really going on between Snape and Dumbledore,
but I certainly don't think we have all the answers just yet, nor do I
believe that Snape told the truth to Bellatrix.

You are certainly right about hiding things in plain sight (note the
absence of a point-of-view character in this scene), but I think
that's exactly what she was doing in chapter 2.

On my first reading, I thought exactly what you (and Harry) think,
that Snape cold-bloodedly murdered Dumbledore, only with the opposite
emotional reaction. Now I think the truth has not yet been revealed.
We know that there's a hugely important Snape/Harry confrontation
scene coming in Book 7. That, probably, is when we'll learn the full
truth about Snape. We certainly don't know it yet, appearances to the
contrary.

Granted, Harry is the hero of the books, but he is still in the
process of learning how to become the Chosen One. He doesn't know
everything yet. Witness his huge mistake in rushing to rescue Sirius
in OoP. He still needs to learn to balance intellect and emotion, and
I think that, somehow, Snape is the key to that lesson.

Carol

P.S. For the record (and nothing to do with Eggplant's post), memories
are not *stored in* a pensieve, nor will we find either Snape's or
Dumbledore's memories there, but maybe we'll see more bottled
memories, assuming that Harry returns to Hogwarts and that he can get
out of the Pensieve without help. Maybe you apparate out?

P.P.S. For the Snape theorists (I know what the Snapehaters will say,
thanks): Does anyone think that Snape can still communicate with the
Order members using his Patronus and that they would know by the mere
fact that he could still use such powerful anti-Dark magic (per JKR's
website) that he really was still on their side?

P.P.P.S. Since I'm trying to squeeze everything into one post, the
funniest line for me was Luna's about gum disease. Too bad I can't
remember it!

Okay. All finished now.

Carol, who thinks that we need to plunge into the depths of HBP to
find its truths. We won't find them on the surface or in the open.