Snape's AK Failed!!!, and DADA responses

[juli17 at aol.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 134446

 
Trekkie wrote: 
I think there's a VERY good reason why we're introduced to Non-verbal spells 
in this book. If they didn't have some ... larger meaning, there was no use 
to bring them in at all. So it supports my pet theory that, not, Snape 
wasn't able to cast a functional AK against Dumbledore, the only person who 
has ever truly trusted and protected him - so he *said* the words Avada 
Kedavra, but since he couldn't possibly mean them, he had to couple them 
with a non-verbal spell, expelliarmus or something similar, to throw 
Dumbledore up and kill him, weakened as he was. I am sure that AK isn't the 
*only* curse that is lethal anyway. Snape had to figure out siomething that 
would look convincing. He NEEDED it to appear like he WAS able to AK 
Dumbledore, if it came out that he "loved" Dumbledore too much to do so, he 
would have blown his DE cover completely.

So I'm pretty sure there was a non-verbal spell at play here, as well as the 
unsuccesful AK.

 
Julie says:
I wonder if you can speak one spell while thinking another and have either
of them work? We don't have any canon for it, but I suppose if anyone
could do it, it would be Snape, since one thing we have learned in HBP
is that Snape really is a very powerful wizard. 

Still, I don't think Snape performed a full AK on Dumbledore. Either 
he used the AK to mask another spell, or he performed an incomplete
AK (but with enough strength to knock Dumbledore of the tower, thus
effective enough to kill him in his weakened state).
 
 
Eggplant:


In short, there are so many unanswered questions that it seems to me 
that an analysis of abused!Snape is way over what we see in canon.

I won't say that it is beyond reason.  If JKR wants to use it as 
foreshadowing, she is well on her way, but by itself, it's not 
there.  If people believe it as a gut feeling, I can certainly buy 
that.  I have gut feelings about many things ;o)  

So, if anyone is convinced that Snape was abused, and would like to 
share their reasoning, I'm all ears.  I would just be interested to 
know if I am just not sharing a gut feeling, or if I am missing canon.
 
By the way, now we know why Harry did so poorly in Snape's Occlumency
lessons in book 5 and why they weakened his defenses rather than
strengthen them. 
 
 
Julie says:
I supposed I'm reasonably convinced Snape lived in an abusive 
household because there's not really any reason for JKR to put
the scene in, except if it gives us some actual insight into Snape.
I know that pensieve scene doesn't prove abuse, but it certainly
seems to show how the apple never falls far from the tree. And, 
yes, JKR throws in occasional red herrings, but she doesn't tend to 
go overboard with them. Snape has enough against him based 
on what we know of his past and personality. There's no need for
JKR to pad the case, then pull that rug out for no real purpose. 



Inge:
So it could very well be that Dumbledore has kept Snape from teaching 
DADA because of the jinx on the job? Dumbledore can't afford to lose 
Snape as a teacher - but why is it that he then gives Severus the DADA-
job in Harry's 6th year anyway - knowing it may just mean the end of 
Snape teaching at Hogwarts? 
 
Julie:
We have to assume that Dumbledore didn't expect Snape to remain
at Hogwarts once the year was out. The war is heating up, and my
best guess is that Dumbledore expected he would have to send 
Snape back to Lord Voldemort as a deep cover spy, using some
means the two concocted to make Snape appear once again a loyal
Death Eater. And I'm guessing that among those alternatives was
the "worst case scenario"--i.e., Snape killing Dumbledore when 
Draco couldn't, thus keeping Snape alive and placing him where
he can do the most damage to Voldemort and give the most aid
to Harry and the Order.
 
My feeling is that Dumbledore achieves two things when he makes
Snape the DADA teacher. 1. DD enhances Harry's learning 
experience just when he believes Harry needs it most, and 
not just with a very competent DADA teacher teaching the 
non-verbal spells Harry will need to know against LV, but
also with Harry back in Potions where he actually *learns*
for a change, from the HPB potions book he has--not
coincidentally, I'm sure--been loaned. (And isn't it amazing
that he's learning the crucial DADA and Potions information
he'll need from the same person, Snape/aka HBP?) And 2. 
DD is giving Snape his heart's desire, the chance to teach
DADA before Snape leaves Hogwarts for good (whether he
he dies or not, I don't think Snape will ever be back there
as a teacher again).


Janeway:
2. Why did DD finally give the position to Snape this year? For 
years he had thought that having this position would cause Snape 
to "relapse." We know that DD had figured out that there was some 
kind of curse on the position, at the least limiting it to one year, 
possibly doing more. What was different this year to make DD change 
his mind and take the risk? 

One simple explanation is that he needed to bring Slughorn on to the 
staff in order to get the Horcrux information (as well as to protect 
Sluggy), and since HS is a potions prof, Snape had to be displaced 
to DADA. 
 
Julie:
I don't know about that. Why couldn't DD make Slughorn a DADA
professor? I'm sure Slughorn knows enough about it (he knew 
about Horcruxes for instance) to get by as a DADA teacher.
And it's not like Dumbledore has hired teachers with the most 
competence, especially in DADA, given that he let that dimwit
Lockheart teach DADA one year. And Quirrell didn't seem all
that great either (certainly Umbridge wasn't though DD had 
nothing to do with that).
 
So, if all DD wanted was a way to get at Slughorn's memory,
he didn't *have* to put him in Potions, especially if he feared
Snape would be harmed in any way by the DADA curse.
DD pretty much does what will help him achieve his goals,
period, thus he put Slughorn and more particularly Snape
*exactly* where he wanted them both, IMO.
 
Julie 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]