Trelawney,Drink, MacBeth Witches (was Re: Part 3 of JKR's MN/TLC interview)

[templar1112002]

No: HPFGUIDX 134585

Marcela now:
This would only apply if Trelawney knew that she'd 
made two real prophecies.  The fact of the matter is that she 
doesn't remember making any of them.
 
*Milz replied:
She might not remember them, but she has some type of memory of the 
incidents which is why she's able to tell Harry that it was Snape 
who interrupted. If you want to get into psychological theories, 
Trelawney's behavior is reminiscent of someone with PTSD (post- 
traumatic stress disorder)---they remember the events leading up to 
and after, but don't remember the actual traumatic event. And 
unfortunately, they continue to suffer from it.
 
Marcela wrote:
Trelawney started smelling like sherry in OoTP, when she  was under 
the pressure of Umbridge's probation time and then got 
chucked out -but saved by Dumbledore. Harry never smelled any 
sherry aroung her in PoA and GoF.
Then in HBP, we see her continuing with the sherry because she was 
discontent with Firenze and their sharing the students Divination 
classes.  And finally, perhaps because Dumbledore was not taking 
heed of her card reading and/or her complaints about Firenze's 
classes.  Ever since OoTP and Umbridge, Trelawney's little world 
started falling apart... 

*Milz replied: 
Yes, and this time period also corresponds with the second prophecy 
and with the return of Voldemort.
The mind is a wonderfully mysterious thing. I've known of people 
who've gotten "stressed out" as their children reach certain ages 
because at that time in their childhood, something 'traumatic' 
happened to them and their adult stress is a manifestation of their 
anxieties. 


**Marcela now:  If I may say so, I believe that this topic is a bit 
ridiculous, but heck, this is HPFGUs, :D

This is the scene with Trelawney and Harry:

"...'Dumbledore did me the courtesy of calling upon me in my room.  
He questioned me... I must confess that, at first, I thought he 
seemed ill-disposed toward Divination...and I remember I was 
starting to feel a little odd, I had not eaten much that day...but 
then...' <snip of Harry's thoughts threading this with the Prophecy>
'...but then we were rudely interrupted by Severus Snape!'
'What?'
'Yes, there was a commotion outside the door and it flew open, and 
there was a rather uncouth barman standing with Snape, who was 
waffling about having come the wrong way up the stairs, although I'm 
afraid that I myself rather thought he had been apprehended 
eavesdropping on my interview with Dumbledore -you see, he himself 
was seeking a job at the time, and no doubt hoped to pick up tips!  
Well, after that, you know, Dumbledore seemed much more disposed to 
give me a job, and I could not help thinking, Harry, that it was 
because he appreciated the stark contrast between my own unassuming 
manners and quiet talent, compared to the pushing, thrusting young 
man who was prepared to listen at keyholes -Harry, dear?' ..." HBP 
pages 544/5 Schol.ed.h/c.

(I liked the pun 'pick up tips!', :D)

If we are to believe that Trelawney was suffering from PTSD, then 
she should have been experiencing such for about sixteen years now, 
ever since she'd made the first prophecy, or at least since when its 
first part took place: when the Potters got killed and the AK failed 
on Harry.
But the little canon we have of Sybill tells us that she started 
smelling like sherry in OoTP, which is when her position at Hogwarts 
got threatened.

To make this post a bit more practical and in an attempt to add to 
the pool of ideas for brainstorming, I'd say that we shouldn't focus 
on Trelawney's behaviour, which as I said above, is a bit irrelevant 
to the story, but that we should concentrate on Jo's designs for 
her: it's evident to me that Sybill is a "plot device". 
Her 'cracking' had to be there in order for Harry to learn about 
the 'eavesdropper'.  Harry had to force Dumbledore to explain his 
reasons for trusting Snape.  Dumbledore didn't have a way out now 
that Harry had learned of the identity of the eavesdropper.  I'm 
afraid that many of us are very reluctant (delusional?) to accept 
the simple answer to Dumbledore's trust on Snape's loyalty to 
him/Order -I myself made a little Snape-is-loyal-to-Dumbledore 
theory, :).  Jo gave this answer to Harry in HBP: Dumbledore 
believed that Snape had repented from telling the prophecy to 
Voldemort/getting the Potters killed.  That was good enough for him, 
even knowing that Snape was very good with Occlumency.  As canon and 
interviews say it, Dumbledore's greatest weakness was to "believe 
the best in people", and that despite his brilliant genius he'd made 
huge mistakes.

Back to Trelawney, we now know that Voldemort knew the identity of 
the prophecy's Seer, yet he didn't attempt to get Sybill in OoTP, 
nor in HBP.  This tells me that Sybill was a plot device and that Jo 
may very well be done with her character (like Shakespeare was with 
the three witches in Macbeth -IIRC).  Even if Voldemort gets to 
somehow break into Sybill's mind and learns the full version of the 
prophecy/ies in HP7, it'd be a bit late in the War.  As of now, 
Harry is not going to back out/ignore the prophecy with all the 
knowledge he's got from Dumbledore:  Harry has to hunt for 
Voldemort's souls in order to finish him off.  He knows 
that "neither will live while the other survives".  So Trelawney's 
prophecy knowledge or lack thereof, is sort of moot now.  Her 
character's served her purpose.  Both Harry and Voldemort are on 
their last battle in their personal war.  Jo has said that Harry 
will be his own man from now on, I highly doubt that there would be 
another prophecy.  

BTW, I am going to read Macbeth again -did so about twenty years 
ago, :).  But, IIRC, the three witches also delivered "two 
prophecies/visions", and it was Macbeth's doings that made them 
true.  Also, I don't think that the witches showed up after the 
second vision, but I might be wrong.  I wonder about this because 
perhaps Trelawney might not show up anymore in the story.

Marcela