I still dont like Fleur

[adairfletch]

No: HPFGUIDX 134679

Lynn wrote (in response to Shannon):
> So you think Molly, Ginny and Hermione have a greater duty 
> to be nice than Fleur?  It's okay for Fleur to be openly 
> rude and disrespectful but the others can't express their 
> feelings in private?

I think what Shannon meant was that Ginny, Hermione, and Molly 
were doing exactly what they dislike Fleur for doing.  Yes, Fleur 
can be rude and disrespectful, but that is not an excuse for 
others to do it in return, be it in private or not, and personally, I'd rather someone insult me to my face instead of behind my back.  If the three dislike her haughty arrogance so much, than they 
should be doing their best to be above such behavior.  
 
Lynn wrote: 
> <snip> Right from the time we first meet Fleur in GOF, she is 
> haughty, arrogant, rude, vain and not only acts superior but 
> does it by putting other people or things down. <snip> 
>    
> <snip>  She keeps putting down Tonks even though Mrs. Weasley
> has made it clear that Tonks is a friend of the family.  It 
> makes no difference whether or not she thought Mrs. Weasley 
> was trying to push Tonks on Bill, it is rude to go into 
> someone's home and criticize their friends.  And, in doing so, 
> points out that beauty is apparently everything since the fact 
> that Tonks isn't taking care of herself is such a mistake, all 
> this while checking herself out in a spoon.

Um, the bit about Tonks... what?  I don't think anyone has meant to 
imply that we see someone letting themself go due to depression as 
wrong.  I think all anyone was implying is that it is wrong for a 
parent to force someone else on their child just because they don't 
like who their child has chosen, not when that chosen person makes 
said child happy.  And it's not like Fleur is straight out of "Fatal 
Attraction," let's please put some perspective on this: Molly has 
no real complaint against Fleur, other than Fleur being, as you 
describe, rude, disrepectful, and insulting.  

If Bill can look past it, then his family should too, for the simple reason of not wanting to alienate Bill or his future children.  If they can't look past it, then they need to learn to live with it, 
for Bill's sake.  And it would be different if Fleur were really as awful as you make her out to be, then I might be in your camp, but she's really not.  A lot of Fleur's arrogance I have always viewed 
as a kind of self-protection device.  The second the family starts 
to accept her, I think Fleur will calm down.  She may not ever be pleasant to the other girls, but I think she'll be at least tolerable.  

And Ginny isn't the best example to use, because I have a feeling 
Ginny is just as rude to Fleur as Fleur is to her, when she can get 
away with it; Ginny isn't one to sit back and take an insult.  
Neither is Hermione the best example, really, because I think her 
dislike of Fleur stems more from the way Ron acts around her.  And 
Fleur is probably overly rude to Tonks, because Molly is making 
Tonks into a threat against her relationship with Bill.  Fleur is tearing down possible competition, and though it isn't the right thing for her to do, again, I think she does it out of insecurity.  Others judge her for being superficial, for only being a pretty 
face, but no one ever stops to think that Fleur might do the same thing to herself.  She's secure in her looks, because in other 
areas she probably doubts herself, just like we all do.

My point is that Fleur might always be annoying, but she isn't a 
horrible person.  Let's leave that category to the Wormtails, 
Bellatrixes, and Voldemorts of the world.

Lynn wrote:
> <snip>  And, has she even asked if she could help?  Apparently
> not, otherwise she would have been helping with the dinner, not 
> saying how much better Beauxbaton does things than Hogwarts.  
> I wouldn't dream of going to someone's house and acting as Fleur
> did here.

Well, neither would I, but I doubt Molly would even accept Fleur's 
help, and that's what myself and other posters mean when we way 
Molly's behavior is just as rude.  And yes, the tray episode was 
disrepectful of Fleur, but if you'll go back and read it, she just 
wanted to say hello to Harry, whom Molly would not let her go see.

Lynn wrote:
> Let's not forget Fleur whips Molly across the face with her hair.  
> Why?  Apparently because Fleur feels the first thing Harry should 
> have been told upon entering the house was that Fleur and Bill 
> were getting married.  Can we say self-centered and self-
> absorbed?   She knew Harry had arrived in the middle of the night 
> and that he had just woken up.  Apparently, even though there is 
> a war going on, she feels there's nothing more important than her.

Or maybe she feels no one told Harry, because they don't want it 
broadcasted that Bill is marrying Fleur.  Again: self-absorbed vs. 
insecurity.  If Molly and the other girls have been subverting Fleur 
with other people, why would she not rush in to talk to Harry about 
the marriage first, especially since she likes Harry? 


Lynn wrote:
> We learn why Molly has some concerns about the relationship 
> and, these are genuine concerns.  Other than good looks and 
> intelligence (and the way Fleur is acting, I'd question the 
> intelligence part myself), what do they have in common?  Bill
> is hardworking, Fleur is only working part-time and doesn't
> appear to be showing any sign of helping in the house; Bill 
> is down-to-earth, Fleur is full of herself <snip>.  I think 
> Molly has genuine doubts about Fleur and, from what Fleur has
> shown in Molly's presence, they are reasonable.  Molly should 
> take Bill's word that Fleur makes him happy and he wants to 
> spend the rest of his life with her.  But, Molly may also be 
> wondering if it is the Veela part of Fleur that is influencing 
> Bill.  Again, that's reasonable – look how Ron's affected. 

Ok, now we're just making biased judgments.  How do we know if 
Fleur is hard-working or not?  We don't, we don't know enough about her to make that kind of judgement.  But she was in the Triwizard 
Tournament, so I wouldn't call her lazy.  Is Fleur really full of 
herself, or just insecure?  Again, we don't know.  And I understand 
the Veela doubt, but people seem to get use to being around her, 
except for maybe Ron.  And I don't think even Ron would propose to 
her just because of an infatuation, I'm sure Bill knows her better 
than we do.  

These kind of arguments irritate me, because they're the same kind 
of thing people have been using to argue against Harry/Ginny and Remus/Tonks.  We don't know enough to say whether or not these 
people are good for each other, and even if we did, who are we to 
say what makes someone happy?  I, too, wish JKR had shown more between the couples, then maybe we'd see more of what makes them work, but if the characters are happy, and their significant others are not secretly axe murderers, then I'm not going to complain.  
If Cho truly did make Harry happy, I wouldn't complain, even though 
I don't really like her, simply because Harry would be happy.  If Fleur makes Bill happy, then as far as I'm concerned, on with the marriage, and Molly just needs to deal with it. 

  
Lynn wrote:
> Let's not forget Christmas.  Apparently no one likes listening 
> to Celestina, Arthur even apologizes to Harry about it, but 
> everyone else has enough respect to put up with it, except Fleur 
> of course.  Even worse, she makes fun of it after it becomes 
> apparent that there is sentiment involved.  If Fleur was truly a 
> woman in love, wouldn't she have understood that type of 
> sentiment?  I would.

Not if it's just bad music.  And personally, I can't stand the pop 
love ballads that consistently fill the airwaves.  Give me a Clash 
song to listen to any day over that garbage.


Lynn wrote:
> I blame Bill for not stepping in and stopping Fleur from showing 
> such utter disrespect to his family and friends.   This is not 
> someone I'd want for a daughter-in-law.  Heck, this isn't someone 
> I'd want for a houseguest for the weekend.  I would have serious 
> doubts if this person could truly make someone happy.  Whether 
> this person is capable of thinking of someone other than 
> themselves.
 
Well, like I said before, if she makes Bill happy, then we have no 
right to complain.  And if my nonexistent son became engaged to 
someone like her, or if one of my brothers did, I'd deal with it, 
for the reasons I mentioned above.  Fleur doesn't have to make 
Molly happy, she's supposed to be making Bill happy.


Lynn wrote:
> <snip>  It's no wonder Molly feels Fleur will probably leave.  
> Yes, Fleur gets upset about it.  But Fleur should realize that 
> she had a hand in giving that impression.   But then, she 
> continues to show she is still full of herself by saying she's
> good looking enough for both.  Hello?  That's not humor, that's 
> what she honestly believes.  It is at the bedside that Fleur 
> finally lets Molly know that she truly loves Bill.  From Molly's 
> reaction, that's all she's needed to know.  I think Molly can put 
> up with Fleur's obnoxiousness and self-centeredness as long as 
> she knows that Fleur truly loves Bill.

Again, how do you know it's not humor?  How do you know she truly 
believes in the superficial?  Fleur was shocked, and you don't know 
how you would react in that situation, unless you've experienced 
something similar yourself.  The fact of the matter is, Molly does 
accept Fleur at the end, because Fleur loves Bill just as much 
disfigured as when he was whole.  If Molly can accept it, then so 
should we.


Lynn wrote:
> Now, as much as she irritates me and I find her obnoxious, I 
> like Fleur because she showed a depth of feeling for her sister
> and I believe she can have that for someone else.  But then, we 
> have been privy to this while Molly has not.  However, Fleur is 
> old enough to know what respect is and should be showing Molly
> and Arthur that respect simply because they are Bill's parents.  

Finally, a point we can agree on.  I think all the girls in the 
situation just need to grow up a little bit, and stop being so 
utterly petty.  Can we please start worrying about DD's death and 
Voldemort now?

Adair