Clues Convergent Redux -- Snape is a nice wizard because .....

[zgirnius]

No: HPFGUIDX 134922


> tinglinger (to zgirnius)
> --------------------------------------
> "house of cards"? after six plausible reasons? I am not saying that
> this has to be so, just that it can't be dismissed.......
> <snipped some of my own nastiness to this ..... trying to be civil>
> 
zgirnius:
Hi there! I'd like to clarify, I did not mean to belittle the merist 
of these sorts of theories. (I believe them myself, which is why 6 
reasons suggest themselves to me fairly easily :-) )The sense in 
which the "Snape loved/liked Lily" theory is a house of cards is that 
it would take just one breath to knock it down. The breath in which 
JKR, in an interview, in answer to the question:

"did Snape love Lily?" answers, "Is THAT what people think? No, of 
course not!"

All my plausible reasons *suggest* this theory, but they could be 
*red herrings*. I just happen to agree with you that the theory is 
likely, at least in the sense that no other information we have at 
this point explains DD and Snape's motives 16 years ago to my 
satisfaction. But we could learn some new backstory in Book 7, right?

Also, I did not try to come up with reasons why Snape did not love 
Lily. I can think of two off the top of my head. First, I used the 
Pensieve scene as evidence *for* the theory, but the scene could be 
(has been!) argued as evidence of the opposite (he calls Lilly a 
Mudblood, etc...)
Also, my weak reason 7) could be a non-Lily reason. (Snape has 
actually been carrying the torch for Cissy all these years...)

> tinglinger:
> Who could have been there besides Snape that makes
> more sense? If no one was there, why did JKR clam 
> up the moment the question was asked during the interview
> last week? 
> And as I had posted once before without having an answer
> that disproved what I said -
> 
> if NOONE ELSE but Harry, Lily, James, and Voldemort were
> there, who told the story of the Boy Who Lived to the whole
> wizarding world that night ?????? 

zgirnius:
Oh, I agree with you here. LV's body and wand did not walk away on 
their own. 

tinglinger: Snipped comments on Good!Snape theories.

zgirnius:
I am a fence-sitter on the Snape issue. And as I have attempted to 
clarify above, I believe the Snape loved Lily theory. (I just wouild 
not consider it *proved*. Call me pedantic-it must be my mathematics 
training talking...) So any attempt I would make to defend Snape from 
charges that he is and has always been either a) totally evil, or b) 
a loyal death eater, *would* hinge on this theory. I made an attempt 
at a NotQuiteTotallyEvil!Snape theory in post 133503.

But (again) my pedantic tendencies kick in...while I personally would 
evaluate some theory along those lines as the one JKR is *most 
likely* to confirm in Book 7, I can see where people are coming up 
with ESE!Snape and Good!Snape theories to some extent.

One canon basis for a Good!Snape theory (which can work with or 
without supposing the *reason* for Snape's remorse is his love of 
Lily) is found in "Spinner's End". When Snape takes the UV, he 
instructs Bella on the mechanics of the process. This opens the door 
to the speculation that Snape has taken a UV in the past. And we have 
DDs repeated, very firm insistence that he trusts Snape, with 
McGonagall's claims that DD's reason is "ironclad". It has been 
suggested that DD trusts Snape because, when Snape came to him 
originally, he asked to make a UV with DD to prove the sincerity of 
his remorse. People who take this position, would have to conclude 
that Snape is still holding up his end of the batgain, as he ios 
still alive. (Of course, it would matter very much how the UV was 
worded...) Then add to this any of the numerous Good!Snape posts 
anlyzing the "argument" Hagrid overheard, the somewhat odd demeanor 
of both Snape and DD in the tower, the unusual effect of Snape's 
AK/the emphasis on nonverbal spellcasting in the book, and Snape and 
Harry's interactions in "The Flight of the Prince". 

Speaking of the UV...why do you think Snape took it in HBP? I can't 
find a reason for a loyal DE *or* super-evil-out-for-himself Snape to 
do this.

--zgirnius, Who thinks that, anyway, Snape is provably ESI (Ever So 
Interesting)