Am I the only one...

[delwynmarch]

No: HPFGUIDX 135071

Milz wrote:
"Knowing how something is done after seeing an example of it is very
different from creating something de novo. What Fred and George
do--manipulating and altering jinxes and hexes to get certain results
is very different from looking at an end product and speculating how
it works."

Del replies:
But when Hermione manipulates the Protean Charm to give the DA a way
to communicate, or when she manipulates whatever hex to create the
Sneak Jinx, that doesn't count, right?

Milz wrote:
"Never said Hermione lacks intelligence. I've stated that she's not on
the same plane of intellect as HBP or Fred and George."

Del replies:
And you've never neither PROVED that, nor even explained why you set
the HBP and the Twins on a separate plane, let alone a higher one.

1. We don't know *how long* it took the Twins and the HBP to figure
their inventions. For all we know, maybe they worked for years to get
results that Hermione would have gotten in a few weeks.

2. We know that the Twins sacrificed almost everything else in order
to create a few artifacts. They worked barely enough to scrape a
handful of OWLs, even though with their intelligence, just paying
attention in class should have allowed them to pass many more classes.
Hermione, on the other hand, is stretching her time between MANY
things, she simply doesn't have the time to concentrate on creating
new stuff right now.

3. The Twins have the motivation, Hermione doesn't. The Twins are not
happy being at school and learning, Hermione is. So for now she is
applying all her energy to studying and learning, but there is no
telling what she could do if she concentrated on something in particular.

Milz wrote:
"But you bring up another problem with Hermione: she allows her biases
to get in the way of the advancement. Again, this is an example of not
thinking outside of the box. In terms of research and innovation, if
you stay within the confines of that box, you limit yourself and your
research."

Del replies:
How dare she, a 16-year-old kid, have biases... No matter, of course,
that she is the only one thinking outside the box on matters such as
House-Elf enslavemnet...

Milz wrote:
"That's why she isn't on the same intellectual plane as the Weasley
Twins or HBP."

Del replies:
WHAT plane??

You keep going on about how the HBP and the Twins are such geniuses,
but you have NOT brought a single PROOF of it. The only thing we know
is that they did great magic, but we don't know how long it took them,
nor how much research, nor ANYTHING. If you want to argue that they
are true geniuses, then you're going to have to prove it, not just
assume it based on the results. When I was in high school, my best
friend was some kind of genius, he got great grades with comparatively
little work. Another classmate, on the other hand, spent hours and
hours and hours on his schoolwork, he was probably the one who worked
most of all of us. But the end result was that he had just as good
grades as my best friend. So there's no way to judge of someone's
"intelligence" just by the results. It's the way they get there that
distinguishes true geniuses from less gifted but very hard-working
people. 

Milz wrote:
"History celebrates the innovators and creators---those who dared to
push the boundaries of the accepted---and calls them "the greats of"
their fields."

Del replies:
Do you have any idea how much time those greats spent learning, and
studying what other people have done? Do you have any idea how often
they failed, how many of their ideas proved fruitless, how much sheer
tenacity they often needed to get ONE true stroke of genius? 

Hermione hasn't even started working in any field yet! So how on Earth
could she show any kind of genius?? 

Milz wrote:
"You can't make that kind of assumption. Because she does lack
scientific creativity."

Del replies:
Prove it! You keep saying that but you haven't proved it. 

Milz wrote:
"Again, knowing her actions in the books (not our biased
interpretations of it), would Hermione have been able to create the
polyjuice potion if it never existed in the HP world? Probably not,
because she hasn't demonstrated that she can extrapolate and apply
knowledge pragmatically."

Del replies:
We have given you several examples of Hermione doing just that. But
YOU keep asserting, *without any proof*, that she couldn't have
invented the Polyjuice Potion. Methinks that if anyone is having a
biased interpretations of Hermione's actions, it's you.

Milz wrote:
"Alot of assumptions there."

Del replies:
Show, don't tell. What assumptions exactly were made?

Milz wrote:
"Until Rowling says "Hermione devised the Sneak Spell","

Del replies:
Huh? So it's OK to say "Hermione cannot invent new spells", because
JKR hasn't said otherwise, but it is not OK to say "Hermione can
invent new spells", because JKR hasn't said it?

Milz wrote:
"we can only base her actions on what we know of Hermione from PS/SS
to OoP: 1. she reads alot. 2. she studies alot. 3. she's a walking
encyclopedia. 4. she hasn't demonstrated any aptitude for development
of de novo spells, hexes, jinxes, etc."

Del replies:
Numbers 1, 2 and 3 are NECESSARY parts of being a genius and
developing wholly new stuff.

Number 4 is a circular argument. Basically you're saying "I can't
accept that Hermione invented the Sneak Jinx, because she never
invented a jinx before". Huh??

And finally, as we've told you many times, NOBODY has been able to
undo the Sneak Jinx. If that Jinx existed in a book, the Healers in St
Mungo's would know of it, or they would have found it in a book. The
fact that Marrietta showed up in HBP with the Sneak still on her face
is a very strong indication that this jinx is entirely new.

Milz wrote:
"But the point remains, this shows a lack of curiousity, which is a
critical quality in those who are truly innovative and creative. "

Del replies:
Because Hermione shows a lack of curiosity ONCE, you conclude that she
doesn't have curiosity? 

We've given you many psychological reasons why Hermione was peeved
with the book, and didn't want to investigate it. But of course, if
you want to argue that a real genius would never let anything as basic
as ego or jealousy get in their way, please feel free to do so. I must
warn you, though, that historical facts are against you on that one.

Milz wrote:
"But she neglects the bezoar nonetheless. She takes it out of her
possibilities, which is something that isn't done by people who are
truly innovative and creative."

Del replies:
This is downright ridiculous. They were in CLASS, they had a TASK, and
that's what Hermione was doing. There's a MAJOR difference between
applying oneself to a classroom task, within the limits that the class
set, and a real life or a professional situation, where discovering
new ways to do things is the rule. If Harry had been in my classin
high school or university, he would have had a zero, for not doing the
work he was assigned to do. He might have gotten oral congratulations
for thinking of the bezoar, but he would still have had a zero,
because he didn't do the job.

Milz wrote:
"Again, no one is arguing that Hermione is as dumb as a rock. However,
she hasn't shown the brilliance of an Edison, or a Newton, or a
Pauling, or a Pascal or a Weasley twin."

Del replies:
I wonder what you would have judged Einstein to be, at Hermione's age?
Not the genius he was, for sure...

Milz wrote (in another message):
"Again, if the polyjuice potion did not exist in the HP universe,
would she have been able to conceive of that idea and would she be
able to execute it? My guess is no,"

Del replies:
Prove it.

Milz wrote:
"1. She doesn't think outside of the box. She limits herself to the
safe confines of convention and does very well within those confines."

Del replies:
Canon proof of that? Just because YOU SEE Hermione that way does NOT
mean she IS that way.

Milz wrote:
"2. She lacks the critical temerity to apply her knowledge outside of
the box, unlike the Weasley twins."

Del replies:
Canon proof?

Milz wrote:
"When limitations are imposed, creativity and innovation stagnates.
All the innovations and discoveries are because someone somewhere
thought one day "what would happen if" and actually set out to do it.
They didn't cower in a corner and think "Because page 354 of The
Textbook of Everything says it's not possible to do, I'd better not
waste my time." That attitude and that lack of critical thinking only
leads to intellectual stagnation."

Del replies:
That's YOUR view of Hermione, but you have given precious little canon
support of that view. We have given you canon support to the opposite,
but you have dismissed most of it as "assumptions". Well, I dismiss
your view as assumptions too, because that's all it is, as long as it
isn't backed up by canon.

Del