Omniscient Dumbledore (Was Re: Snape's AK Failed!!!, and DADA responses)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 135092

> >>Janeway:
> Your distinction between an omniscient!Dumbledore and a more 
> measured not-a-fool!Dumbledore is well taken. But I don't agree   
> that being wrong about Snape is so much more idiotic than being   
> wrong about, say, LV residing in the back of Quirrel's head.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
For me it's a question of degees.  Dumbledore knew from pretty early 
on that Quirrell was not to be trusted.  He didn't realize that 
Voldemort had taken up residence in the back of Quirrell's head (and 
frankly, I'm not surprised at that), but he didn't take Quirrell 
into his inner circle.  

Snape, on the other hand, is one of Dumbledore's most trusted 
confidants.  When it comes to Order work I was under the impression 
that Snape was pretty much Dumbledore's second.  If Snape does turn 
out to have been Voldemort's man all along, it means Dumbledore was 
*completely* fooled.  

For the Quirrell mistake to even come close, IMO, Dumbledore would 
have had to have sent Quirrell in Hagrid's place to collect Harry 
and the Stone in the beginning of PS/SS.

> >>Janeway:
> But if Quirrel or Diary!Tom or Fake!Moody or any of them had been 
> successful in killing the "chosen one", it would also have been 
> wrong in a "the Order just lost the war" sort of way too. 

Betsy Hp:
Again, for me it's a question of degree here.  Because Dumbledore is 
*so* much more complicit in Snape's case.  *Dumbledore* is the one 
who brought Snape in.  *Dumbledore* is the one who chose to trust 
him so completely.  If Harry had died under Fake!Moody's wand in 
GoF, yes, Dumbledore would feel some guilt in being deceived by 
him.  But I wouldn't feel such a sense of "Dumbledore, you fool."  
Because Fake!Moody tricked *everyone*.  No one was going up to 
Dumbledore saying, "you know, Moody just said the most out-of-
character thing,".  Snape, however, is very much Dumbledore's baby.  
McGonagall suggests that the entire Order thought it strange that he 
was so trusted.

(I'd also add that the reason Harry *didn't* die under Fake!Moody's 
wand is because Dumbledore realized so quickly that Fake!Moody did 
something out of character and, following his instincts, decided 
*not* to trust him.)

> >>Janeway:
> I agree, it would be devastating to find out that Dumbledore is a 
> fool. But I don't think that trusting Snape makes DD a fool, even 
> if Snape turns out to be ESE. When you trust someone you open     
> yourself up to be hurt by them. It's a risk. You have to be very  
> strong and very brave to be able to trust. DD uses his strength to 
> give people second chances, and most of them have paid off (think 
> of the difference it made to Hagrid, Lupin, Sirius... and of      
> course to Tom and Snape as well). 
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
But Dumbledore *didn't* trust Tom.  He totally suspected that Tom 
was playing the rest of the WW for fools despite Tom's so very 
charming ways.  And Dumbledore was right.  Yes, it takes strength to 
trust, but you shouldn't be a complete idiot about it.  Dumbledore 
gave Tom a chance (he let him come to Hogwarts) but he never seemed 
to really *trust* him (he didn't hire him on as a professor).

And Dumbledore, being a relatively wise man, wouldn't fall for any 
run of the mill, "I've done wrong, and I'm *so* sorry" story to come 
along.  After all, we don't see him clutching Lucius close to his 
breast, empathising over the wrongs Lucius must have suffered whilst 
under the control of that terrible brute, Voldemort.

Dumbledore took Snape in as a reformed Death Eater and trusted him 
enough to send him back out as a spy.  Knowing that this would 
entail Snape making split decisions on his own in the field, knowing 
that Snape would need to give Voldemort a good story as to why he 
was still at Hogwarts and working for Dumbledore.  The obvious 
question would be, is he trustworthy. Which means, to my mind, that 
Dumbledore would have explored that question thoroughly.

I'm not suggesting that any kind of spy within the Order means that 
Dumbledore is a fool.  Most spies (Peter is a good example, Fake!
Moody is another) would have tried to fly under the radar, escape 
Dumledore's notice.  Snape, by definition, was right in Dumbledore's 
face. 

If Snape really is ESE it means that Dumbledore examined that 
question and came up with the completely wrong answer.  It would 
mean, in other words, that Dumbledore is a fool.  And it would mean, 
IMO, that any "wisdom" he passed along to Harry would be suspect.

Betsy Hp