[HPforGrownups] Re: I still dont like Fleur

[Ladi lyndi]

No: HPFGUIDX 135251

"P. Alexis Nguyen"  wrote:
 
At the moment, I can only recall Fleur "disparaging" Harry as a little boy at the moment when he announced that he was to compete in the Triwizard Tournament alongside three other 7th years.  Since that's my only memory of her looking down on anyone younger, I really don't buy into the idea that she, as a rule, looks down on people younger than herself.  After all, in GoF, Harry and everyone else fully admits that he is younger and knows less.  Having to compete against Harry in the Triwizard Tournament must have been a little bit of a slap in the face to Fleur.  When in HBP, I didn't see Fleur treating Ginny like Ginny was 3.  In fact, I saw Ginny behaving a little like she was 3, what with the name calling and all.
 
Lynn:
 
Read the weighing of the wands and when Ron asks Fleur to the Ball.  I believe there was another spot as well besides calling Harry a little boy but perhaps I'm just thinking of her going on some more about how inferior Hogwarts is compared to Beauxbatons.  To refer to Harry as a little boy was wrong.  Yes, he's younger; he's not a little boy.  However, what apparently she forgot was that if the cup thought Harry was good enough to be a champion then he has got to be more than just a little boy.
 
Unless I missed it, we never see Fleur and Ginny interacting.  What we have is Ginny's perception of how she is being treated and you know, if that's how she's perceiving it then Fleur is doing something to cause the perception.
 
I'm also tired of people pointing out Ginny's name for Fleur.  Have all of you people, when you were a teenager, never made up a nasty name for someone?  I've even known adults to do it.  Never been teed off by someone treating you as a kid when you are a young adult?  Never called anyone jerk, idiot, or worse?  Ginny isn't acting like a 3 yo.  3 yos don't make up nasty nicknames, they go crying to Mommy.  This is how Ginny is holding her own against a perceived attitude.
 
"P. Alexis Nguyen"  wrote:

Per her actions and reactions in HBP, I thought she was a little bit
blunt, but that's fairly normal considering her background.  Everyone seems to be judging her by, I'm guessing, British/American standards of behaviour; frankly, my experience tells me that the French have similar but *different* standards.  Fleur was tossed into a household of women who obviously didn't like nor make any attempt to be friends with her.  At the very least, Hermione, who has travelled the world, should have recognized Fleur's behaviour pattern and been understanding.  
 
Please don't misunderstand.  I don't think that you should simply
tolerate another person's rude behaviour just because their culture is different, but I do think that, when you are conscious of the fact that there is a cultural difference, like Hermione, at the least, should have been, you should make note of that and attempt to bridge that divide before you start making fun of them behind their back.  In short, when there is a cultural divide and you're the one who feels insulted, you're going to be held to the higher standard until you've attempted to convey to the other party that she is being hurtful.

 
Lynn:
 
First where do we get that Hermione has travelled the world.  We know she's been to France.  Besides, there's a big difference between visiting a place and living there.  I loved Holland, until I moved there.  To be fair, even Dutch people don't like to live where we had to live for my husband's work.  All those friendly, helpful and welcoming Dutch people were replaced by unfriendly, unhelpful and go-back-where-you-came-from Dutch people.  So, you can't expect Hermione to really understand cultural difference on more than a superficial level from vacationing.
 
That said, Fleur has lived in England for over a year.  If she really is intelligent, she would have realized by now that the conventions in England are different than in France and adjusted to them.  It's what I had to do when I moved to the Netherlands.  I was living in their country and therefore had to learn their protocols, not expect everyone else to make allowances for me.  But then, I had enough respect for my husband to try to learn them so he wasn't constantly getting the brunt of conflicts.  In addition, he had enough respect for me to explain how my behavior may be offensive to Dutch people or how their behavior wasn't meant to be offensive.  As I continue to say, Bill fell down on the job with his family.  I would probably feel differently if Fleur had just arrived but she's had plenty of time to adjust.  Besides, we have a neighbor from France who has spent almost as much time in our home as we have.  Her daughter and mine are good friends.  She has never been as blunt
 as Fleur unless invited to be so.  Even though I've told her to help herself many times, she won't without asking.  Why?  As she would tell you it's because she's in England and she learned quickly that such behavior can be considered insulting here in England.
 
Canon please about being tossed into a household of women who "who obviously didn't like nor make any attempt to be friends with her."  We come to the party part way through.  We don't know what was tried before we got there.  What we do know is that Fleur has managed to offend all the women.  We do know that Molly tries, in her way, to let Fleur know that she doesn't appreciate Fleur speaking badly of Tonks.  Fleur ignores her. 
 
"P. Alexis Nguyen"  wrote:

And really, it makes a huge difference if Fleur was thinking that
Molly was trying to push Tonks and Bill together.  It is equally rude to invite someone into your home then attempt to destroy her
relationship with your son, or at least that's how I view that. 
(Frankly, if the situation was going to be this preposterous, I don't see why Molly didn't just tell Bill to stash his fiancee in a hotel in Diagon Alley.)  Though I now no longer think that Molly was pushing Tonks & Bill together, I know I thought that was true for the first 3/4 of the book, so I can't imagine that it isn't possible for someone else to perceive the same.
 
Lynn:
 
I disagree.  I will invite whomever I want into my home and if someone doesn't like it, they can get their butt out.  They have no right to judge why I invite someone into my home the same way Molly had no right to judge Sirius when he invited Mundungus to stay for dinner.  Fleur is so blunt, why didn't she just ask Molly if she was trying to force Tonks on Bill or trying to break up her and Bill?  She has no problem expressing other opinions.  May I also suggest that you thought it was true because a teenage character stated Molly's intentions, not because Molly did anything to give you that idea.  Having Tonks over when everyone else was in bed spoke more to Tonks needing a woman to talk to in confidence rather than Molly wanting her and Bill to be an item.  Molly inviting Tonks for dinner when Remus and Mad-Eye were going to be there hinted at the future relatinship while Christmas told us of the real relationship going on with Tonks.  Nope, the thought that Molly was trying to
 push together Bill and Tonks comes from raging hormones and not a mature examination of the facts.
 
If things were as awfull for Fleur as people keep saying, why did she stay?  She's an adult, get her own place.  Where was she living last year?  She should have said thanks for the visit and it's time for me to go.


"P. Alexis Nguyen"  wrote:
 
Fleur comes into the Weasley family acting like herself.  She prefers things the French way to the British way, understandable since these two countries has a major history of conflicts.  She conveys this to the Weasleys, who perceive this as a superiority complex on Fleur's part and decide to dislike her.  
 
Lynn:
 
There's nothing wrong with Fleur preferring her culture to British culture.  What's wrong is to then constantly denigrate the British culture.  As I said above, what's wrong is not to adapt to the culture when you are in someone's home.  Of course telling people their culture is worthless will cause them to think yourself superior.  
 
As I said in another post, we'll need to agree to disagree based on different experiences.  I believe Fleur should be the one to adapt in this context.  To not do so, to me, shows arrogance and disrespect.  
 
When I go to a Dutch birthday party, I will congratulate every single person in that room on that birthday regardless of how ridiculous I may think the tradition.  I do it out of respect for my host/hostess.  In exchange, when in my home, people adhere to American ways out of respect for me.  They will get off their duff and get their own drinks and food and don't expect me to wait on them.  By showing respect for their culture, they have shown respect for mine.  But is was my place to understand first as I was in their house and in their country.  
 
The upshot, I've learned why everyone gets congratulated for someone's birthday and my in-laws have learned to love potato salad, pigs in a blanket and enjoying their own parties by letting the guests help themselves.
 
JMNSHO

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