[HPforGrownups] Re: I still dont like Fleur

[P. Alexis Nguyen]

No: HPFGUIDX 135161

I've been following this discussion since its inception, and the
combination of Tygrene's comment about cultural differences and
phoenixgod2000's comment on how the other women act made me really
want to reply. :)

Now, I should clarify first that I've always liked Fleur, so that may
colour my perception of her personality.  (Actually, I admit that,
when the GoF movie site first went live, I was really tempted to sign
up to support Fleur instead of Harry.)  Fleur's actions just never
seemed that caustic to me..



Lynn wrote:
> She hasn't changed in HBP.  She's treating Ginny as if she's 3 
> or, in other words, talking down to Ginny.  Nice way to treat your 
> future sister-in-law.   Bet she doesn't treat her own sister that 
> way.  She keeps putting down Tonks even though Mrs. Weasley 
> has made it clear that Tonks is a friend of the family.  It makes 
> no difference whether or not she thought Mrs. Weasley was 
> trying to push Tonks on Bill, it is rude to go into someone's 
> home and criticize their friends.  And, in doing so, points out 
> that beauty is apparently everything since the fact that Tonks 
> isn't taking care of herself is such a mistake, all this while 
> checking herself out in a spoon.

At the moment, I can only recall Fleur "disparaging" Harry as a little
boy at the moment when he announced that he was to compete in the
Triwizard Tournament alongside three other 7th years.  Since that's my
only memory of her looking down on anyone younger, I really don't buy
into the idea that she, as a rule, looks down on people younger than
herself.  After all, in GoF, Harry and everyone else fully admits that
he is younger and knows less.  Having to compete against Harry in the
Triwizard Tournament must have been a little bit of a slap in the face
to Fleur.  When in HBP, I didn't see Fleur treating Ginny like Ginny
was 3.  In fact, I saw Ginny behaving a little like she was 3, what
with the name calling and all.

Per her actions and reactions in HBP, I thought she was a little bit
blunt, but that's fairly normal considering her background.  Everyone
seems to be judging her by, I'm guessing, British/American standards
of behaviour; frankly, my experience tells me that the French have
similar but *different* standards.  Fleur was tossed into a household
of women who obviously didn't like nor make any attempt to be friends
with her.  At the very least, Hermione, who has travelled the world,
should have recognized Fleur's behaviour pattern and been
understanding.  After the first 5 books, I had expected better of
Hermione, at the very least.  I know she's still young, but this was
just the first of many petty little things she did in HBP that made me
like HBP-Hermione less than pre-HBP Hermione.

And really, it makes a huge difference if Fleur was thinking that
Molly was trying to push Tonks and Bill together.  It is equally rude
to invite someone into your home then attempt to destroy her
relationship with your son, or at least that's how I view that. 
(Frankly, if the situation was going to be this preposterous, I don't
see why Molly didn't just tell Bill to stash his fiancee in a hotel in
Diagon Alley.)  Though I now no longer think that Molly was pushing
Tonks & Bill together, I know I thought that was true for the first
3/4 of the book, so I can't imagine that it isn't possible for someone
else to perceive the same.

Please don't misunderstand.  I don't think that you should simply
tolerate another person's rude behaviour just because their culture is
different, but I do think that, when you are conscious of the fact
that there is a cultural difference, like Hermione, at the least,
should have been, you should make note of that and attempt to bridge
that divide before you start making fun of them behind their back.  In
short, when there is a cultural divide and you're the one who feels
insulted, you're going to be held to the higher standard until you've
attempted to convey to the other party that she is being hurtful.




phoenixgod2000 wrote:
<<<SNIP fantastic post defending Fleur>>>

> She's less toxic than Molly, Ginny, and Hermione have been in the
> past six books.  All three have treated many more people much worse
> than Fleurs relatively harmless excentricties.

I don't know that I agree completely, though I definitely agree
partially.  In my mind, the situation goes a little like this:
Fleur comes into the Weasley family acting like herself.  She prefers
things the French way to the British way, understandable since these
two countries has a major history of conflicts.  She conveys this to
the Weasleys, who perceive this as a superiority complex on Fleur's
part and decide to dislike her.  Hermione arrives on the scene,
internalizes the Weasley's dislike and makes it her own with,
probably, very little reason other than that Ron is a bit daft when
around Fleur.  Poor Harry arrives on a charged scene, and it is from
that point onward that we see this story.

I guess I like this scenario since it makes no one commit a sin worse
than the inability to look past superficial behaviours.  However,
because I do somewhat agree with phoenixgod2000's description of the
three other women involved, I'll have to expound further (and
apologize for my verbosity).

Molly - I've never hated Molly, but she is the epitome of the
overprotective mother who cannot let go.  You add Bill and Fleur's
decision for a relatively short engagement, and it is a recipe for
disaster.  Not only is Fleur taking Bill away from Molly, but Fleur is
doing it in a period of great turmoil for Molly (the new war) as well
as being too short a period for Molly to fully cope with the fact that
she's going to lose her son to another woman, or so Molly thinks.

Ginny - Ginny strikes me as the type of person who is quick to judge
but less quick to rethink her judgment, which is a fault too many of
us suffer from.  As I see her character in HBP, it appears that Fleur
likely said one thing that was distasteful to Ginny, and from that
point forward, neither girls were destined to be friends.

Hermione - Oh Hermione, what happened?  As I've already stated, I
thought that, even if Hermione didn't like Fleur's behaviours,
Hermione should have been more understanding.

In short, unlike phoenixgod2000, I think the entire situation was more
of a vast misunderstanding and an inability to bridge cultural
barriers rather than a situation where all the people involved were
just plain obnoxious, though I do agree in the sense that everyone
involved was just a smidge obnoxious.

~Ali, who doesn't understand her need to be one of the legions defending Fleur