Harrry the Horcrux - Body and Soul

[saraquel_omphale]

No: HPFGUIDX 135480

Steve wrote: 
> 
> Based on my understanding of the vague and general nature of the
> Horcrux, I don't see how Harry could be one with out some great and
> very substantial leaps of faith. Certainly some 'bit' of Voldemort 
is
> in Harry, that's a fact, but we don't really know if that 'bit' is
> part of Voldemort's soul or part of his earthy essense.

Saraquel:
I'm so convinced that Harry is *not* a Horcrux, that with so many 
posts to choose from, I haven't really followed this thread.  But I 
very much agree with Steve's analysis and would like to add a couple 
of points to it.

Steve wrote:
> Further, when it is and has been so blatantly obvious that a part 
of
> Voldemort is in Harry, how could Dumbledore not conclude that that
> 'part' was a part of Voldemort's soul? Dumbledore would have to be
> completely retarted to have not already have thought of it.

Absolutely.  This has always been my main reason for thinking Harry 
is not a Horcrux.  Whatever DD's mistakes have been, they don't 
appear to have been in his powers of reasoning. (although his 
spelling might have been a bit retarted :-)  ) 

But my next most important reason is that we have an example of what 
a Horcrux-soul-fragment does when it comes into contact with a 
living being – namely Ginny.  It procedes to suck the life out of it 
in order to recreate itself a physical reality.  

UK ed COS p231 "But there isn't much life left in her: she put too 
much into the diary, into me.  Enough to let me leave its pages at 
last."

And p233 "But the longer Riddle stood there, the more life was 
dwindling out of Ginny 
 and in the meantime, Harry noticed 
suddenly, Riddle's outline was becoming clearer, more solid." 

If Harry is a Horcrux, then he has been that since he was a year 
old, very weak and defenceless.  Why didn't the Horcux-soul-fragment 
in him simply take over, suck the life out of him, and spit him out, 
years ago?  The Horcrux-soul-fragment was not even *in* Ginny, but 
able to feed off her because of the confidence she placed in it when 
she wrote in the diary. 

To me, it is clear that given an opportunity, a Horcrux-soul-
fragment wants to live and takes any opportunity it can to do so.  
Hence you have a possibility that you could end up with multiple 
Voldemorts, each with their own body, "regrown" from the Horcrux-
soul-fragments' contact with other human beings.  Mmmmh

Now I ask myself about what the worst risk is in destroying a 
Horcrux – oh yes, you've guessed it – recreating another Voldemort!  
This makes me think that the Horcrux!locket is still intact. Let's 
assume for a moment that RAB is Regulus, and he did get the locket. 
Then we are talking a long time since that Horcrux was discovered 
and as no-one has mentioned Genius!Regulus, then I think he would 
have failed to even open the locket, if he had succeded, it is my 
guess that we'd have another Voldemort walking the earth somewhere. 

Steve wrote:
> I believe what was tranferred to Harry is part of Voldemort's 
earthy
> vehicle, and not part of his soul. His ability to speak Parsle 
Tongue
> is part of Voldemort's earthy essense, part of his earthly 
identity.
> It's not associated with the true pure spiritual essense of his 
soul.

Thanks for that exposition on body,spirit,soul.  I've been puzzling 
over that one, and your thoughts have helped.  Snape describes a 
ghost in HBP p431 "A ghost <snip>, is the imprint of a departed soul 
left upon the earth 
 and of course, as Potter so wisely tells us, 
transparent."  

Ok, so, it seems obvious to me (but then lots of things seem obvious 
until someone on the list points out how unobvious they are :-)  ) 
that some sort of energy is what creates and sustains the body.  I 
tend to think of it more as life energy, rather than earthly 
essence, as the energy has a dynamic element to it.  But what's in a 
name 
. 

When Voldemort creates a Horcrux, 2 things at least seem to happen – 
his soul splits totally apart, and his body goes through some sort 
of transformation.  So during the transformation of the body, I can 
well believe that some of his body-life-energy, might have got into 
Harry. 

I've posted stuff aound this topic before which includes cannon 
references, here is the relevant bit of the post:


In message 134701 Saraquel wrote:
IMO, that Voldemort had plans for an immortal body, is clear from 
his remark in UK GoF p 569 "But I was willing to embrace mortal life 
again, before chasing immortal. I set my sights lower 
 I would 
settle for my old body back again, and my old strength."

This is an interesting line, in that he calls his current existence –
 mortal life.  Seeing as he has survived without a body, the part 
that he seems to think of as mortal in this context is his body.

In the Mugglenet interview, JKR says that the first foetal-like body 
he created is significant. In GOF p567 he talks about creating this 
with Wormtail's help "a spell or two of my own invention 
 a little 
help from my dear Nagini." 

I'm really not sure where to go with this one, but I've also had 
tucked in the back of my mind that Voldemort's body changes every 
time he makes a Horcrux. It is quite distinctly shown in the text.  
Therefore the making of a Horcrux is not just about the soul, it is 
also about the body as well.  HBP P413 "It was as though his 
features had been burned and blurred; they were waxy and oddly 
distorted"  His voice is also affected.

Saraquel now, again:
I'm still not quite sure where all this is leading, but if DD is 
right, and Nagini is a Horcrux, then it is interesting that she had 
something to do with Voldemort being able to recreate a rudimentary 
body.

The other line of exploration that is interesting is about what 
happened to DD when he destroyed the Horcrux!Ring.  The decription 
of Voldemort's physical transformation is that they had been `burned 
and blurred'.  DDs hand had also been burned.  

Saraquel
With still far more questions than answers on this thread.