[HPforGrownups] Re: Dumbledore and Gandalf... COME ON HE IS NOT DEAD! not for long! ;)

[Juli]

No: HPFGUIDX 135487



ahsonazmat <ahsonazmat at gmail.com> wrote:
 
As for parallels with Gandalf...we must remember that Gandalf 
was never "Gandalf", as such. The wizard who went by the 
name "Gandalf" was actually a spirit power from Aman, sent by the 
Valar to aid the peoples of Middle-Earth against Sauron. Now, this 
is stuff well beyond LOTR, but is essential reading in Tolkien's 
overall schematic. Gandalf never actually died: he, as a spirit, was given a new form, or flesh, with which to return - Gandalf 
the "White", as opposed to "Grey". In short, because of the more 
complicated - one could say, essentially, hierarchial - nature of 
the power structure in LOTR, Gandalf (who is, as it were, immortal) 
and Dumbledore (who is in JKR's world very mortal) are in this vein 
incomparable. Their function(s) with respect to the protagonist, of 
course, is a whole 'nother story.

Juli:

For quite a while I have been thinking there is some relation between Gandalf and Dumbledore. They look alike (long bears, white hair, old, stronger than they seem), they have the same purpose (to defeat the bad guy), and they both died.
 
You say Gandalf didn't actually die, but he did, In book 2 (The Two Towers), when he meets Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas in Fangorn, he explains what happened: he says he died, then he returned. And Gandalf wasn't a spirit, he was a Maiar, a lesser Valar, he had the inmortal life of the Eldar and Eru's Valar, even in The Silmarilion he was mentioned (as Olorin, the wise), but even if they are inmortal, they can die: Many elves died, also some Valar (Melkor), and Maiar (Saruman, Gandalf).
 
A phrase in the LOTR keeps coming to my mind, right near the end
Gandalf says "my time is over, for I was the enemy of Sauron", I
think that phrase could also be applied to DD, He IS the enemy of LV, LV wants DD out of his way, he's all that's standing on his way. Just as Hagrid said "I wouldn't worry too much as long as we have DD
around" (Sorry don't have my copy right here), it would be fatal for
the entire WW if DD was to die on book 6, afterwards LV could act
freely and take over the entire WW. I think DD *is* Gandalf, they
carry the faith of their worlds on their shoulders, they seem to know what's going to happen next and how to change it.
 
I think he is THE enemy of Voldemort, as in the biggest. Why else have we always heard DD is the only one LV has ever feared? If he was just another enemy, like so many he's got, why make such a big deal about him? DD takes the war personally, he even created the *only* group that's always been fighting. You could argue with me saying that Harry/Neville is The enemy, but I don't agree with that. LV feared DD long before any of them were born.

I believe DD knows a LOT more than we believe, he seems to know
everything that happens in Hogwarts, even before things happen. I
read somewhere that it could be because frog-cards, and Bill did say
that DD didn't care if they fired him as long as they kept him on the frog-cards. How else could he have known when in PS Harry was
spending his evenings at the mirror of Erised, and that Harry would
be in that final encounter with LV/Quirell? I have no idea how DD
knows the future, but I'm sure he does know what's about to happen.

Gandalf also acted as if he knew what was going to happen, he seemed to have the gift of foresight, he worked for years to save middle earth, he too died to save others.
 
All this said I think DD will return. How? I haven't a clue, I think he may do so as a phoenix, there's been way too many mentions of the Phoenix and DD.
 
(I copied some bits from an old thread, starting at number 116432.)


Juli
Aol: jlnbtr
Yahoo: jlnbtr
MSN: julibotero at msn.com

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