Dumbledore and Gandalf... COME ON HE IS NOT DEAD! not for long! ;)

[ahsonazmat]

No: HPFGUIDX 135564


Juli says: 
> You say Gandalf didn't actually die, but he did, In book 2 (The 
Two Towers), when he meets Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas in Fangorn, he 
explains what happened: he says he died, then he returned. And 
Gandalf wasn't a spirit, he was a Maiar, a lesser Valar, he had the 
inmortal life of the Eldar and Eru's Valar, even in The Silmarilion 
he was mentioned (as Olorin, the wise), but even if they are 
inmortal, they can die: Many elves died, also some Valar (Melkor), 
and Maiar (Saruman, Gandalf).
>  
..................
> All this said I think DD will return. How? I haven't a clue, I 
think he may do so as a phoenix, there's been way too many mentions 
of the Phoenix and DD.
>  



       I don't want to get into a purely LOTR discussion, becuase I 
don't think the admin. will appreciate that. But, this is important 
in relation to Dumbledore: Gandalf did not die. A Maiar _is_ a 
spirit, and the entity of "Gandalf" the wizard was clothed in human 
flesh for the peoples of Middle-Earth so that they would trust him. 
Recall, the Valar, when they decided to help the people, wanted to 
send someone who was in Sauron's early days, his equal. They clothed 
Gandalf (Olorin) in human flesh so that he could gain the peoples' 
trust, rather than fighting the battle for them, and at the end 
setting himself up as the next Sauron. 
      
Neither the Maiar nor the Valar can die: Melkor did not die; he is 
bound beyond "the Walls of the World" into the "Timeless Void". This 
is in Silmarillion; this is why Earendil "keeps watch over the 
rampart of the skies", and it is told in the Dooms of Mandos that 
Melkor will indeed return. When Gandald fell into the "abyss" with 
the balrog, he never died: he left one human shell and took on 
another. But spirits do not die. Gandalf's words to Aragorn in Two 
Towers are not that "I died", but rather that "darkness took me, and 
I strayed out of thought and time", which are properties or 
dimensions of a physical order.

 This trait is different, and not related, to the Eldar elves, who 
are "immortal" only inasmuch as they will not die of old age - they 
can be killed by steel and sword. You are confusing the properties 
of the Eldar and the Valar (both lesser and greater). In being 
spirit, the Valar don't die at all - even Saruman, stabbed in the 
back in the Shire, departed only his physical form, or shell. And 
with Melkor, his immortality (as spirit) is explicit. 

       Now, Dumbledore is _not_ primarily a spirit. As someone else 
mentioned, he is a wizard among wizards, not an anamolous entity in 
Middle-Earth. He does not possess that innately "transcendent" 
dimension Gandalf does. 

    I think, too, that DD will play a part in the 7th book, but 
mostly as passive advisor, through his portrait, et all. Of course, 
I hope I am wrong, and hope his animagus form is phoenix, and that 
was what Harry saw leave the burning pyre. No harm in hope, I 
suppose. 


 - AA